P and F Setting Question

Gunny Fitz · June 12th, 2012, 09:50 AM

Just taking a shot to see if anyone has done this intentionally or by mistake, please dont quote the manual because I already know what it states:

Has anyone ridden with a passenger while the rear suspension setting was in the "F" position? If so were there any difficulties seen or felt?

Tango Yankee!

lsberrios1 · June 12th, 2012, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunny Fitz

Just taking a shot to see if anyone has done this intentionally or by mistake, please dont quote the manual because I already know what it states:

Has anyone ridden with a passenger while the rear suspension setting was in the "F" position? If so were there any difficulties seen or felt?

Tango Yankee!

I rode in F with a passenger for about 2 miles. Never exceeded 50mph but it felt good in all respects. It felt even more responsive because the weight added to the input. No real problems noticed but then again too short of a distance.

ducatiguy136 · June 12th, 2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunny Fitz

Just taking a shot to see if anyone has done this intentionally or by mistake, please dont quote the manual because I already know what it states:

Has anyone ridden with a passenger while the rear suspension setting was in the "F" position? If so were there any difficulties seen or felt?

Tango Yankee!

Yep. I kept mine in F for the first 600 miles. Rode with a passenger quite a bit. You can tell the difference in corners and such but not much difference on smooth highways.

Gunny Fitz · June 12th, 2012, 11:52 AM

This is all great news. Wonder why the hell they flag it in the manual and say riding a passenger in F can cause instability or loss of control then?
Would love a formal response on this from anyone who may know. I know there are some serious technical engineer types on here! - lol.

Andy1199 · June 12th, 2012, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunny Fitz

This is all great news. Wonder why the hell they flag it in the manual and say riding a passenger in F can cause instability or loss of control then?
Would love a formal response on this from anyone who may know. I know there are some serious technical engineer types on here! - lol.

Because if you hit a pothole, it will throw them out of the seat, it threw me out of the seat and I was on the front seat! I did 100 miles hard today in P and its miles better, no more banging and jumping on uneven roads, doesn't feel any different on smooth ones.

Gunny Fitz · June 12th, 2012, 03:24 PM

Read that 3I times and still not sure I understand it buddy.

Andy1199 · June 12th, 2012, 03:56 PM

Ok in F it was extremely hard, hit anything uneven and it was hard to stay in the seat, had I had a pillion on it would have been worse, it bucked and kicked. In P it's much more complient, it tracks better and doesn't buck or kick. We have poor roads in the UK and F was really hard work.

My point about P was that on super smooth Tarmac it felt no worse than F so I dont see the point of F on the road. Off to have it set up professionally next week in P and will try one up and two up and let you know.

doctorj · June 12th, 2012, 04:04 PM

Lets clear up what this does.

Linear (F) vs progressive (P)

Linear is a 1:1 ratio, so if the "swing arm" moves 1" then then the shock moves an equal amount. ( not 1' ) If you broke down the movement of the rear shock into 4 1" movements you will always get the same movement at the shock shaft every inch.

Progressive is just that progressive. Rising rate or falling Rate

So if we move the swing arm 1' every additional inch we move the rear swing arm the shock shaft will not move relationally.

So the first inch of swing arm movement lets say the shock moves 1', then the next inch of swing arm travel it may move .5'. (2:1)

This is a bit tough for me to explain, hopefully that makes some since.

So how does this effect your bike in the real world.

If your going along and hit a bump with a passenger in flat ( F = Linear ) then your shock cannot move as much as you may need based on the spring.

If the same bump came along and your in progressive ratio then the shock is allowed to move more for the same swing arm deflection. Hence softening the ride.

A flat curve is always better in controled environments and properly setup for the bike load. However the motorcycle is sold and its anyone's guess what load it will be put under, by load I mean weight it has to carry. So a progressive ratio is best.

Regarding your concern, Ducati is worried the bike will get very upset if the swing arm is not dampened properly causing rider to loose control.

The rear spring is calculated for a 200lb rider, now what happens when you throw another 150 lbs or more at it, the spring can no longer work as expected so leverage must be used to accommodate the extra load.

Gunny Fitz · June 12th, 2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorj

Lets clear up what this does.

Linear (F) vs progressive (P)

Linear is a 1:1 ratio, so if the "swing arm" moves 1" then then the shock moves an equal amount. ( not 1' ) If you broke down the movement of the rear shock into 4 1" movements you will always get the same movement at the shock shaft every inch.

Progressive is just that progressive. Rising rate or falling Rate

So if we move the swing arm 1' every additional inch we move the rear swing arm the shock shaft will not move relationally.

So the first inch of swing arm movement lets say the shock moves 1', then the next inch of swing arm travel it may move .5'. (2:1)

This is a bit tough for me to explain, hopefully that makes some since.

So how does this effect your bike in the real world.

If your going along and hit a bump with a passenger in flat ( F = Linear ) then your shock cannot move as much as you may need based on the spring.

If the same bump came along and your in progressive ratio then the shock is allowed to move more for the same swing arm deflection. Hence softening the ride.

A flat curve is always better in controled environments and properly setup for the bike load. However the motorcycle is sold and its anyone's guess what load it will be put under, by load I mean weight it has to carry. So a progressive ratio is best.

Regarding your concern, Ducati is worried the bike will get very upset if the swing arm is not dampened properly causing rider to loose control.

The rear spring is calculated for a 200lb rider, now what happens when you throw another 150 lbs or more at it, the spring can no longer work as expected so leverage must be used to accommodate the extra load.

AHA! I knew there would be someone out there to break it down like a pro! Thank you Doctor! Now, I am about to break my own request that I listed at the beginning of this post. I am going to paste exactly what our manual states. Then I am going to log off and completely slap myself about the head for answering my own questions. I went out and looked at my bike and it seems I had it the correct way for passenger riding all along!!! ughhhhhh

Disregard the Motorcycle USA Shootout results. We all know where we stand!

Changing the motorcycle track alignment
(fig. 154, fig. 155)
Motorcycle setup is the result of tests carried out under different riding conditions by our technical staff.
Modifying factory setting is a very delicate operation, which may lead to serious damage if performed by someone who is unskilled.
The rider can modify setup according to his/her needs by changing working position of the shock absorber.

Important
The FLAT position (F) allows for different track alignment, as on the racing versions.

The PROGRESSIVE position (P) is recommended with a passenger aboard.
Warning: Using the vehicle set to Flat with a passenger aboard may result in vehicle instability.

elitesoldier357 · June 12th, 2012, 08:21 PM

Soooooo... better to have it setup to Progressive for the street? I know I plan on having LOTS of women on the back of my Panigale

So probably best to have it switched over to Progressive tomorrow when I have it serviced right?

Valen75 · June 12th, 2012, 11:49 PM

"Progressive" for road riding is just like night and day, it's more comfortable than a SF with the proper DES settings.

I really think that unless you are doing track only, you should switch to P.

mrmaloo32 · June 13th, 2012, 01:36 AM

? has anyone changed setting themself yet

Beanflicker · June 13th, 2012, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmaloo32

? has anyone changed setting themself yet

Yes...

Look elsewhere through the forum (use the search) and you'll find a "How to".

20 minutes tops.

.

DeltaIV · June 13th, 2012, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorj

Lets clear up what this does.

Linear (F) vs progressive (P)

Linear is a 1:1 ratio, so if the "swing arm" moves 1" then then the shock moves an equal amount. ( not 1' ) If you broke down the movement of the rear shock into 4 1" movements you will always get the same movement at the shock shaft every inch.

Progressive is just that progressive. Rising rate or falling Rate

So if we move the swing arm 1' every additional inch we move the rear swing arm the shock shaft will not move relationally.

So the first inch of swing arm movement lets say the shock moves 1', then the next inch of swing arm travel it may move .5'. (2:1)

This is a bit tough for me to explain, hopefully that makes some since.

So how does this effect your bike in the real world.

If your going along and hit a bump with a passenger in flat ( F = Linear ) then your shock cannot move as much as you may need based on the spring.

If the same bump came along and your in progressive ratio then the shock is allowed to move more for the same swing arm deflection. Hence softening the ride.

A flat curve is always better in controled environments and properly setup for the bike load. However the motorcycle is sold and its anyone's guess what load it will be put under, by load I mean weight it has to carry. So a progressive ratio is best.

Regarding your concern, Ducati is worried the bike will get very upset if the swing arm is not dampened properly causing rider to loose control.

The rear spring is calculated for a 200lb rider, now what happens when you throw another 150 lbs or more at it, the spring can no longer work as expected so leverage must be used to accommodate the extra load.

good stuff...Ducati have always said P for the road ...F for the track...when you think about the movement of the suspension it's logical.

Andy1199 · June 13th, 2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorj

Lets clear up what this does.

Linear (F) vs progressive (P)

Linear is a 1:1 ratio, so if the "swing arm" moves 1" then then the shock moves an equal amount. ( not 1' ) If you broke down the movement of the rear shock into 4 1" movements you will always get the same movement at the shock shaft every inch.

Progressive is just that progressive. Rising rate or falling Rate

So if we move the swing arm 1' every additional inch we move the rear swing arm the shock shaft will not move relationally.

So the first inch of swing arm movement lets say the shock moves 1', then the next inch of swing arm travel it may move .5'. (2:1)

This is a bit tough for me to explain, hopefully that makes some since.

So how does this effect your bike in the real world.

If your going along and hit a bump with a passenger in flat ( F = Linear ) then your shock cannot move as much as you may need based on the spring.

If the same bump came along and your in progressive ratio then the shock is allowed to move more for the same swing arm deflection. Hence softening the ride.

A flat curve is always better in controled environments and properly setup for the bike load. However the motorcycle is sold and its anyone's guess what load it will be put under, by load I mean weight it has to carry. So a progressive ratio is best.

Regarding your concern, Ducati is worried the bike will get very upset if the swing arm is not dampened properly causing rider to loose control.

The rear spring is calculated for a 200lb rider, now what happens when you throw another 150 lbs or more at it, the spring can no longer work as expected so leverage must be used to accommodate the extra load.

Very nicely put! You summed it up perfectly. I don't miss F at all.

elitesoldier357 · June 13th, 2012, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmaloo32

? has anyone changed setting themself yet

Just did today, really didnt notice the difference in handling or anything. But the ride felt a little softer in the rear. Just switch it. If you dont like it all you have to do is take the bolt out, put it back in the old slot and you're done.

southeastduc · September 27th, 2012, 12:06 PM

Props to drj, that was very helpful writeup, thanks.

tholstro · September 27th, 2012, 05:20 PM

"P" when braking approaching a corner is not great... Rear won't settle down. For aggressive riding "F" is the way to go. Solid and stable. For two up to Starbucks ride the MultiStrada! That's what I do. Comfy!

First post! Wow!

June 12th, 2012, 09:50 AM	#1
Gunny Fitz Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Washington, DC Posts: 1,454 Thanks: 229 I Ride: Panigale Tri-Colore	P and F Setting Question Just taking a shot to see if anyone has done this intentionally or by mistake, please dont quote the manual because I already know what it states: Has anyone ridden with a passenger while the rear suspension setting was in the "F" position? If so were there any difficulties seen or felt? Tango Yankee!

June 12th, 2012, 04:04 PM	#8
doctorj Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: ptown, Oregon Posts: 137 Thanks: 2 I Ride: Panigale 1199S ABS	Lets clear up what this does. Linear (F) vs progressive (P) Linear is a 1:1 ratio, so if the "swing arm" moves 1" then then the shock moves an equal amount. ( not 1' ) If you broke down the movement of the rear shock into 4 1" movements you will always get the same movement at the shock shaft every inch. Progressive is just that progressive. Rising rate or falling Rate So if we move the swing arm 1' every additional inch we move the rear swing arm the shock shaft will not move relationally. So the first inch of swing arm movement lets say the shock moves 1', then the next inch of swing arm travel it may move .5'. (2:1) This is a bit tough for me to explain, hopefully that makes some since. So how does this effect your bike in the real world. If your going along and hit a bump with a passenger in flat ( F = Linear ) then your shock cannot move as much as you may need based on the spring. If the same bump came along and your in progressive ratio then the shock is allowed to move more for the same swing arm deflection. Hence softening the ride. A flat curve is always better in controled environments and properly setup for the bike load. However the motorcycle is sold and its anyone's guess what load it will be put under, by load I mean weight it has to carry. So a progressive ratio is best. Regarding your concern, Ducati is worried the bike will get very upset if the swing arm is not dampened properly causing rider to loose control. The rear spring is calculated for a 200lb rider, now what happens when you throw another 150 lbs or more at it, the spring can no longer work as expected so leverage must be used to accommodate the extra load. Thanks from Redfox

September 27th, 2012, 05:20 PM	#18
tholstro Member Joined: Sep 2012 From: Frisco, TX Posts: 75 Thanks: 3 I Ride: 2013 MultiStrada Pikes Peak, 2012 1199S	"P" when braking approaching a corner is not great... Rear won't settle down. For aggressive riding "F" is the way to go. Solid and stable. For two up to Starbucks ride the MultiStrada! That's what I do. Comfy! First post! Wow! Last edited by tholstro; September 27th, 2012 at 05:26 PM.

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June 12th, 2012, 11:52 AM	#4
Gunny Fitz Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Washington, DC Posts: 1,454 Thanks: 229 I Ride: Panigale Tri-Colore	This is all great news. Wonder why the hell they flag it in the manual and say riding a passenger in F can cause instability or loss of control then? Would love a formal response on this from anyone who may know. I know there are some serious technical engineer types on here! - lol.

June 12th, 2012, 03:24 PM	#6
Gunny Fitz Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Washington, DC Posts: 1,454 Thanks: 229 I Ride: Panigale Tri-Colore	Read that 3I times and still not sure I understand it buddy.

June 12th, 2012, 03:56 PM	#7
Andy1199 Senior Member Joined: Apr 2012 From: UK Posts: 157 Thanks: 2 I Ride: 1199 Tricolore, Multistrada Pikes Peak, 748R	Ok in F it was extremely hard, hit anything uneven and it was hard to stay in the seat, had I had a pillion on it would have been worse, it bucked and kicked. In P it's much more complient, it tracks better and doesn't buck or kick. We have poor roads in the UK and F was really hard work. My point about P was that on super smooth Tarmac it felt no worse than F so I dont see the point of F on the road. Off to have it set up professionally next week in P and will try one up and two up and let you know.

June 12th, 2012, 08:21 PM	#10
elitesoldier357 Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: Lansing, Michigan Posts: 604 Thanks: 61 I Ride: Ducati 1199 Base Model	Soooooo... better to have it setup to Progressive for the street? I know I plan on having LOTS of women on the back of my Panigale So probably best to have it switched over to Progressive tomorrow when I have it serviced right?

June 12th, 2012, 11:49 PM	#11
Valen75 Member Joined: Apr 2012 From: France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0	"Progressive" for road riding is just like night and day, it's more comfortable than a SF with the proper DES settings. I really think that unless you are doing track only, you should switch to P.

June 13th, 2012, 01:36 AM	#12
mrmaloo32 Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Australia Posts: 244 Thanks: 0 I Ride: Full Custom Victory Hammer, Arlen Ness Victory Vision,2007 R1, Husaberg 570,Ducati 1199 S	? has anyone changed setting themself yet

September 27th, 2012, 12:06 PM	#17
southeastduc Senior Member Joined: Jun 2012 From: Florida Posts: 310 Thanks: 24 I Ride: 2012 1199 ABS, 2009 YZ450F	Props to drj, that was very helpful writeup, thanks.