BMW won it again. - Page 2

mark419ny · July 24th, 2012, 09:45 AM

sorry it was just a quick post. actually love all those other bikes you mentioned but to be honest im a little biased towards the 1199. Thats ok though as long as i state it first

phild · July 24th, 2012, 04:38 PM

Ducati forever. <until I need to lay down 800 fast miles in a day, then Kawaski C14>

sqd8r · July 29th, 2012, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikt

How many SBK world championships won in that of Munich?

I think BMW is shitting its pants, considering that next year the 1199 will probably make it to the WSBK....they've got quite close to the 1098 and now they have to do everything again...

so....marketing is the only weapon left

WORLDSBK.COM | CHAMPIONS

Have you watched WSC this year? Melandri, and others TBF, have outclassed Checa on the 1098R handily.

Shitting its pants.

WSC and racing in general isn't that important in terms of marketing anymore - certainly not compared to the first ten yrs or so. Even the RC51 with 2 titles in 3 yrs and a better bang for the buck compared to the Ducati was not a sales success compared to the BMW.

If WSC was that important there would be a grid full of factory efforts not satellite teams. Even BMW is going satellite next season, opting for its Italian effort as its presence in WSC and WSS because they have a sales success on their hands and are shrewdly focusing on maximizing profits while maintaining a presence in WSC. Barring the cam recall this season BMW has had an enviable record, they are leading the manufacturers title race in WSC, have a shot at the WSC title but more importantly have sold the S1RR well and have reported record sales across the board again. In the real world the bottom line matters not the number of world titles. Exactly what marketing does BMW need to do now?

Racing / racing success these days just isn't as important as it was in the past in ensuring brand identification / loyalty. Subaru left WRC stating simply that they had their brand identity established and no longer required the investment. Even Ducati isn't running a full effort in WSC because ultimately this is about bike sales and if a presence can be assured without spending more, companies will go for it. I fully expect the Panigale to win the title next yr not because it is a better bike but because Ducati is sorely in need of a win. With its MGP campaign in the toilet Ducati have no choice but to win and win big next year and TBF even this year in WSS. But, in any event that isn't the bike you or I can buy or more to the point ride to the limit.

Do you think BMW was focused on a sales success, breaking into a new market or wanted the world title? Ideally both but I'm sure a sales success was foremost in their minds. Otherwise why bother.

When we look at other mfgs race success vs. sales success you've got to see what they were doing right. What is the best selling bike ever to come out of WSC - the GSXR-750 with zero titles. In contrast Ducati with all its titles has never had even a fraction of the sales success Suzuki and the others have had. There's more to it than titles. BMW has a sales success on its hands... there's no filling the pants over that, only the pocket books.

Really wish people would get past it and enjoy what you've bought.

bradp51 · July 29th, 2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm4two

Clearly you don't watch the World Superbike Series lol. BMW has 5 total WSBK wins in it's existence, all by Melandri this year, but no major championships to date

Yes but who is leading superstock....a 1199 team. Anyway I buy the bike I want to ride not what some magazine tells me to ride

nuckingfuts · July 29th, 2012, 10:29 AM

Why is BMW pulling it's factory team out of WSBK in 2013? Hmm...

Could it be because they know they can't win?

But, they can win every magazine comparo known to man. So why spend the money, just sell more bikes to every guy that holds magazine comparo as the bible.

sqd8r · July 29th, 2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckingfuts

Why is BMW pulling it's factory team out of WSBK in 2013? Hmm...

Could it be because they know they can't win?

But, they can win every magazine comparo known to man. So why spend the money, just sell more bikes to every guy that holds magazine comparo as the bible.

Like I said - value for money.

1 - WSC isn't as important as domestic racing for sales
2 - BMW is expanding its CRT program supplying S1RR motors and support.

finally get with current events - BMW is leading the manufacturers title and are in with a shot at the title and have already won domestic superbike titles as well as WSS titles.

MadeinItaly · July 29th, 2012, 11:45 AM

Seriously, WGAF?

nuckingfuts · July 29th, 2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqd8r

finally get with current events - BMW is leading the manufacturers title and are in with a shot at the title and have already won domestic superbike titles as well as WSS titles.

Oh big whoop

Season isn't over yet and you're already celebrating. Domestic superbike titles? Are you referring to the 2010 FIM Superstock? Zzzzzz. What else have they won? Educate me oh wise one.

DZbum · July 29th, 2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSR racer

Dear BMW / Ducati 1199 Panigale Comparo Motorcycle media Gurus:

Allow me to vent and Such for a moment or two

Your comparisons (no matter who is reporting) always have the same "buzz words"...

....Beemer needs less rider input, doesn't need to be ridden at 10/10ths, It's easier to ride overall, blah blah blah....Vanilla ice cream all day every day!

Your comparisons and reporting equates to, IMHO, a NON-sport bike experience. Where, someone please tell me, is the SPORT, in easier to ride, needs no commitment, needs less input, etc??

If I wanted a Luxury, no rider input needed, zero thrills, no taking it to the edge ride; then I would probably have gotten the BMW.

I LIKE the SPORT aspect of a sports bike!! Where is your view on that aspect?

Your reports are replete with the same wording as in auto comparisons of the GT-R Vs any Porsche GT3....easier to drive fast, no input needed, no feedback indicated, practically drives itself....it's plagiarism of motor sport in general and the dumbing down of the whole SPORT experience overall.

Do you need the technical advances of the machine to iron out all of the wrinkles of your poor riding abilities so you can say you went fast at the track?

I NEED and WANT the sense of being on the "edge" and taking it to "10/10ths" to extract the feedback that puts the adrenaline in my heart and the vitality in my soul!! I LOVE knowing that without my Responses to the bike's feedback, that I may well be down for the count. THAT IS SPORT RIDING!! For me anyway.

That is the essence of a SPORT BIKE.

Your reports are bereft of an ounce of the meaning of SPORT BIKE and are the drivel of an automaton which regurgitates whatever your editors and the manufacturers demand.

When I need a f*%king robot that will let me ride fast without my input, I will get a BMW wheelchair.

Until then; I will continue to search for my ultimate man/machine connection through the only brand that let's one take that chance and challenge himself every damn time he straddles his Ducati!!

Thank you.

you should write for mags

sqd8r · July 29th, 2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckingfuts

Oh big whoop

Season isn't over yet and you're already celebrating. Domestic superbike titles? Are you referring to the 2010 FIM Superstock? Zzzzzz. What else have they won? Educate me oh wise one.

The internet is your friend, there is more to it than tranny porn sites.

nuckingfuts · July 29th, 2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqd8r

The internet is your friend, there is more to it than tranny porn sites.

Ran out of things to say about motorcycling smarty pants??? Now you refer to your favorite hobby.

DucSyd · July 29th, 2012, 06:50 PM

In the latest UK mag FastBIkes, as only the Brits can do, the test august all other sport bikes regardless of engine size, the Panigale did not post the fastest lap times due mainly to not putting the control tyre on, but here is a snapshot of the ravings from the testers.

" Imagine trying to ride an industrial spec pneumatic drill controlled by a raging bull that's been freshly branded. That's close to how a Panigale feels when you're giving it the berries. Yet again Ducati has created a monster that is mastered only by the world's elite riders. But by Jove, it's jolly good fun to ride."

" I loved every minute. The Panigale is without doubt the most involving motorcycle I have ever ridden. It may not be the fastest against a stopwatch, but no other makes me feel the way the 1199 does, post ride. No other motorcycle tattoos a permanent grin on my face."

" The Panigale is a prime example of why you should'nt get too wrapped up in dyno figures and pub talk. It's all about real time activity. There is no way the Superquadro engine is kicking out a measly 172bhp. The way this motor spins, it's sheer aggression deserves a health warning. If you've got the gonads and skills to keep the revs in the power and, the 1199 feels like it is doing 1199mph in a warp speed frenzy. Love it"

They gave it a 10 out of 10 " impossible not to award it 10 / 10"... " this is a man's bike...for sheer entertainment this wins hands down"

Nikt · July 29th, 2012, 07:43 PM

In italian it's called: "cagarsi in mano" in english is "shitting their pants"...

with the 1199 due for WSBK and Audi backing up Ducati there's not much the poor guys from Munich can do...except being the safety car for the motogp with as many Ms as possible on those fat tails

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqd8r

Like I said - value for money.

1 - WSC isn't as important as domestic racing for sales
2 - BMW is expanding its CRT program supplying S1RR motors and support.

finally get with current events - BMW is leading the manufacturers title and are in with a shot at the title and have already won domestic superbike titles as well as WSS titles.

sqd8r · July 29th, 2012, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckingfuts

Ran out of things to say about motorcycling smarty pants??? Now you refer to your favorite hobby.

Nah, just no need to repeat myself - I already answered your questions / comments earlier the bottom line being in case you missed it that racing doesn't matter. Lighten up we aren't getting into a flame war because we get to enjoy the best bikes on the planet. There are people starving in the streets no matter where you live. This isn't important.

sqd8r · July 29th, 2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucSyd

In the latest UK mag FastBIkes, as only the Brits can do, the test august all other sport bikes regardless of engine size, the Panigale did not post the fastest lap times due mainly to not putting the control tyre on, but here is a snapshot of the ravings from the testers.

" Imagine trying to ride an industrial spec pneumatic drill controlled by a raging bull that's been freshly branded. That's close to how a Panigale feels when you're giving it the berries. Yet again Ducati has created a monster that is mastered only by the world's elite riders. But by Jove, it's jolly good fun to ride."

" I loved every minute. The Panigale is without doubt the most involving motorcycle I have ever ridden. It may not be the fastest against a stopwatch, but no other makes me feel the way the 1199 does, post ride. No other motorcycle tattoos a permanent grin on my face."

" The Panigale is a prime example of why you should'nt get too wrapped up in dyno figures and pub talk. It's all about real time activity. There is no way the Superquadro engine is kicking out a measly 172bhp. The way this motor spins, it's sheer aggression deserves a health warning. If you've got the gonads and skills to keep the revs in the power and, the 1199 feels like it is doing 1199mph in a warp speed frenzy. Love it"

They gave it a 10 out of 10 " impossible not to award it 10 / 10"... " this is a man's bike...for sheer entertainment this wins hands down"

Agreed if lap times mattered that much we'd all have been on much different bikes over these many years.

DucSyd · July 29th, 2012, 08:44 PM

Yes agreed, in the preamble they said...

" 2012 hasn't been shy of electrickery and new buttons to press. We've been graced with the awesomeness of Ducati's Panigale - the bike we've run out of superlatives and adjectives for to add to it's beauty and performance. The sexiest bike of the 10 here and in the whole bike world."

Gotta love the way the Brit magazines write

Nikt · July 29th, 2012, 09:32 PM

Page 52:

http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/al...04_Anglais.pdf

it's easy to win with a 6kg advantage and no air restriction on a four cylinder

After Assen fortunately FIM didn't decide to go up to 174 ...probably it would have been to much an advantage for the always "fair" Germans

Cheers

from Italy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqd8r

Have you watched WSC this year? Melandri, and others TBF, have outclassed Checa on the 1098R handily.

Shitting its pants.

WSC and racing in general isn't that important in terms of marketing anymore - certainly not compared to the first ten yrs or so. Even the RC51 with 2 titles in 3 yrs and a better bang for the buck compared to the Ducati was not a sales success compared to the BMW.

If WSC was that important there would be a grid full of factory efforts not satellite teams. Even BMW is going satellite next season, opting for its Italian effort as its presence in WSC and WSS because they have a sales success on their hands and are shrewdly focusing on maximizing profits while maintaining a presence in WSC. Barring the cam recall this season BMW has had an enviable record, they are leading the manufacturers title race in WSC, have a shot at the WSC title but more importantly have sold the S1RR well and have reported record sales across the board again. In the real world the bottom line matters not the number of world titles. Exactly what marketing does BMW need to do now?

Racing / racing success these days just isn't as important as it was in the past in ensuring brand identification / loyalty. Subaru left WRC stating simply that they had their brand identity established and no longer required the investment. Even Ducati isn't running a full effort in WSC because ultimately this is about bike sales and if a presence can be assured without spending more, companies will go for it. I fully expect the Panigale to win the title next yr not because it is a better bike but because Ducati is sorely in need of a win. With its MGP campaign in the toilet Ducati have no choice but to win and win big next year and TBF even this year in WSS. But, in any event that isn't the bike you or I can buy or more to the point ride to the limit.

Do you think BMW was focused on a sales success, breaking into a new market or wanted the world title? Ideally both but I'm sure a sales success was foremost in their minds. Otherwise why bother.

When we look at other mfgs race success vs. sales success you've got to see what they were doing right. What is the best selling bike ever to come out of WSC - the GSXR-750 with zero titles. In contrast Ducati with all its titles has never had even a fraction of the sales success Suzuki and the others have had. There's more to it than titles. BMW has a sales success on its hands... there's no filling the pants over that, only the pocket books.

Really wish people would get past it and enjoy what you've bought.

nuckingfuts · July 29th, 2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqd8r

Nah, just no need to repeat myself - I already answered your questions / comments earlier the bottom line being in case you missed it that racing doesn't matter. Lighten up we aren't getting into a flame war because we get to enjoy the best bikes on the planet. There are people starving in the streets no matter where you live. This isn't important.

Okay Gandhi, whatever you say.

Andav469 · August 1st, 2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucSyd

In the latest UK mag FastBIkes, as only the Brits can do, the test august all other sport bikes regardless of engine size, the Panigale did not post the fastest lap times due mainly to not putting the control tyre on, but here is a snapshot of the ravings from the testers.

" Imagine trying to ride an industrial spec pneumatic drill controlled by a raging bull that's been freshly branded. That's close to how a Panigale feels when you're giving it the berries. Yet again Ducati has created a monster that is mastered only by the world's elite riders. But by Jove, it's jolly good fun to ride."

" I loved every minute. The Panigale is without doubt the most involving motorcycle I have ever ridden. It may not be the fastest against a stopwatch, but no other makes me feel the way the 1199 does, post ride. No other motorcycle tattoos a permanent grin on my face."

" The Panigale is a prime example of why you should'nt get too wrapped up in dyno figures and pub talk. It's all about real time activity. There is no way the Superquadro engine is kicking out a measly 172bhp. The way this motor spins, it's sheer aggression deserves a health warning. If you've got the gonads and skills to keep the revs in the power and, the 1199 feels like it is doing 1199mph in a warp speed frenzy. Love it"

They gave it a 10 out of 10 " impossible not to award it 10 / 10"... " this is a man's bike...for sheer entertainment this wins hands down"

The Panigale got a good write up but, a bit disappointing that it took second place behind the RSV4!

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July 24th, 2012, 09:45 AM	#21
mark419ny Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: New York Posts: 829 Thanks: 127 I Ride: 1199 s abs	sorry it was just a quick post. actually love all those other bikes you mentioned but to be honest im a little biased towards the 1199. Thats ok though as long as i state it first

July 24th, 2012, 04:38 PM	#22
phild Member Joined: Jun 2012 From: VA Posts: 35 Thanks: 0	Ducati forever. <until I need to lay down 800 fast miles in a day, then Kawaski C14>

July 29th, 2012, 10:29 AM	#25
nuckingfuts Junior Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: The OC Posts: 15 Thanks: 0	Why is BMW pulling it's factory team out of WSBK in 2013? Hmm... Could it be because they know they can't win? But, they can win every magazine comparo known to man. So why spend the money, just sell more bikes to every guy that holds magazine comparo as the bible.

July 29th, 2012, 11:45 AM	#27
MadeinItaly Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: Florida Posts: 255 Thanks: 6 I Ride: Panigale S/Abs Honda CBR1000RR Repsol	Seriously, WGAF?

July 29th, 2012, 06:50 PM	#32
DucSyd Senior Member Joined: Jan 2012 From: Sydney, Australia Posts: 166 Thanks: 17 I Ride: Ducati 1199S; Ducati 1098R; Ducati 748R	In the latest UK mag FastBIkes, as only the Brits can do, the test august all other sport bikes regardless of engine size, the Panigale did not post the fastest lap times due mainly to not putting the control tyre on, but here is a snapshot of the ravings from the testers. " Imagine trying to ride an industrial spec pneumatic drill controlled by a raging bull that's been freshly branded. That's close to how a Panigale feels when you're giving it the berries. Yet again Ducati has created a monster that is mastered only by the world's elite riders. But by Jove, it's jolly good fun to ride." " I loved every minute. The Panigale is without doubt the most involving motorcycle I have ever ridden. It may not be the fastest against a stopwatch, but no other makes me feel the way the 1199 does, post ride. No other motorcycle tattoos a permanent grin on my face." " The Panigale is a prime example of why you should'nt get too wrapped up in dyno figures and pub talk. It's all about real time activity. There is no way the Superquadro engine is kicking out a measly 172bhp. The way this motor spins, it's sheer aggression deserves a health warning. If you've got the gonads and skills to keep the revs in the power and, the 1199 feels like it is doing 1199mph in a warp speed frenzy. Love it" They gave it a 10 out of 10 " impossible not to award it 10 / 10"... " this is a man's bike...for sheer entertainment this wins hands down"

July 29th, 2012, 08:44 PM	#36
DucSyd Senior Member Joined: Jan 2012 From: Sydney, Australia Posts: 166 Thanks: 17 I Ride: Ducati 1199S; Ducati 1098R; Ducati 748R	Yes agreed, in the preamble they said... " 2012 hasn't been shy of electrickery and new buttons to press. We've been graced with the awesomeness of Ducati's Panigale - the bike we've run out of superlatives and adjectives for to add to it's beauty and performance. The sexiest bike of the 10 here and in the whole bike world." Gotta love the way the Brit magazines write