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Old July 31st, 2012, 01:56 PM   #21
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Can't we all just get along! Why does it always have to be a pissing contest. If I could afford it I would have in my garage 2012 versions of a Ducati 1199, BMW S1000RR, KTM RC8R, APRILIA RSV4 Factory, Yamaha R1, and Honda CBR 1000RR. They are all great motorcycles, buy what gets your blood boiling. That's exactly what I did!
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Old July 31st, 2012, 02:27 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by batmantis View Post
better not mention the handling issues reported by road racing teams (you seem to equate the world superstock with what you are doing?) and the fact that its 194kg wet
but continue as you will
it always amuses reading these forums when you have people ranting on about how their bike is the best when they are barely even scratching the surface of what its capable of. It should be about what you enjoy and what works for you, not some sort of ego trip to prove you are better by having the fastest thing even though you cant use it properly.
Here's a standard 2012 r1 with lights etc in road trim lapping valencia with a decent rider on board. This is the slowest/heaviest litre bike out there at the mo really. Can you go faster than this? If not can every1 just give it a rest and enjoy what they have!
amen!
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Old July 31st, 2012, 05:11 PM   #23
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Innovation from BMW is a good thing for the market and it keeps everyone on their toes.

Ducati has earned my trust and faith with the 1199 Panigale.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 06:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by shanes View Post
the BMW is real electronic suspension it adjust itself according to the road or track condition , its in a different league to what the 1199 has that only has 3 preset settings.

the blindness of Ducati owners is just scary all raved about the ducati being the fastest bike on the planet, best handling etc etc etc well it failed so now its, who cares as its the best looking bike .
the BMW , ZX10R and RSV4 make the 1199 look silly and at a fraction of the cost , get over your selves its just a motor bike and an average one at that compared to what else is on the market .
It has more than 3 preset settings. You can mix and match more settings on the bike you can can dream up. There are three default settings but these can be tweaked by 32 different front and rear and compression and rebound settings not to mention the 3 abs levels and 3 power levels etc. I think you should go back to some other forum, you do not know what you are talkiing about.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 08:49 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jdr racer View Post
Can't we all just get along! Why does it always have to be a pissing contest. If I could afford it I would have in my garage 2012 versions of a Ducati 1199, BMW S1000RR, KTM RC8R, APRILIA RSV4 Factory, Yamaha R1, and Honda CBR 1000RR. They are all great motorcycles, buy what gets your blood boiling. That's exactly what I did!
It's called personal opinion fella, isn't a pissing contest just what people think... Surely?

You are lucky that you like all those bikes.. I personally don't, but doesn't mean I don't think they they should be what they are... Else the world would be a boring place, variety is the spice of life after all..
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Old July 31st, 2012, 08:58 PM   #26
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This is good news as we are all going to benefit from Audi and BMW competing.

Ducati now for sure has to make an 1199R. Unlike the BMW HP4 the 1199R will be a performance improvement rather than just a weight loss.

The HP4 looks like one heck of a bike on paper but in real life is still ugly. I do not think the Germans make any thing beautiful except for maybe Audi’s R8.

Let’s face it, there is a lot to improve on the Panigale, it is beautiful but is underpowered and ridiculously hot. One would hope the 1199R could solve these problems and retake the claim to be the greatest Superbike ever made.

Audi can provide Ducati with the ability to optimize the engine; weight loss could come from sand casting and using a lithium battery, and at $40 - $50K for 1199R still seems like a bargain.

At the end of the day, you want her to be beautiful and perform like no other.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 09:30 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by shanes View Post
better handling it patters its head off , has no bottom end gives twins a bad name and to top it off not much top end either . try riding some other bikes and comparing them
Weren't you the one that cancelled your 1199 order and bought a Honda? If you only have negative views and comments of the Duc and don't even have a dog in the fight, why are you still on the forum? Re-read your post above, can you honestly say it's fair and not going a bit overboard?

As you've suggested, I've ridden others, including owning/racing a BMW s1k, prepped as a dedicated, well-equipped track bike. It's silly to even compare two bikes set up for different purposes but, interestingly, when I do, the 1199s easily holds its own...and stock with, an allegedly performance sapping, full system.

As an earlier post suggested with the R1 video, having the best dyno numbers on a "race" bike is still missing the most important component to actually make it go fast. Nothing puts a smile on my face more at a track day than when I see a 250 passing a liter bike in the middle of a turn.....

Can someone please start a poll to see how many of us are tired of threads about "magazine shootouts", "dyno results", "burned thighs", and "comfort seats = wrists hurting". Anyone that says this bike "gives twins a bad name" is plain wrong in my opinion and, thankfully, my opinion is the only one that matters to me....no matter how many times a journalist tells me differently.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 12:41 AM   #28
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Well said +1 !!
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Old August 1st, 2012, 01:38 AM   #29
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HP4 looks amazing and will be a serious weapon.

I'll stick with my Duke as I no where near a good enough rider to even reach the limits of this bike let along the HP4.

I always thought you buy bikes with your heart and not your head. Therefore the Dukes will always win even though there are quicker bikes out there.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 03:32 AM   #30
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Sorry to have started a S@#t storm ;-)

I did quite clearly state IMHO = In My Humble Opinion!

I did not mean to offend Shanes, or anyone else, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm not denying that the BMW is a good motorcycle, I clearly state that I think it is fastest in a straight line.

I do however think I'm entitled to my opinion also, which is that the Pani handles better( based on having ridden a 12 S1KRR), that it looks better(IMHO), that it is not made to look silly by the bikes listed by Shanes(IMHO).

I further suggest, again IMHO!!!, that the HP4 seems like a "reaction" to the Panigale, many of the listed items in the initial leaked report, and the confirmation on Visordown which I read, seemed to indicate it was mainly "bolt on" parts and as such seemed like you could make your own HP4, except for the "modes".

I since stand corrected on the fact that the damping is apparently "self adjusting" on the move. So my apologies for getting that wrong, despite stating "I haven't read anything about..." it. To me, IMHO, that still feels like an "evolution" and "reaction" to the Panigale being the first production bike with electronic suspension rather than a Revolution.

The reason I mentioned Superstock is because it is the closest class to our production motorcycles, and both Ducati and BMW compete. I therefore think it is relevant that the Panigale is winning, in it's first year from a BMW with 4-5 years worth of development in it. However I also agree that those bikes are not exactly what we ride and that is a fair comment, but they are as close as you can get in international racing, another point would have been that they are not currently doing all that well in BSB. To which I would have countered other points. In my mind that is how a civilised discussion goes, we both put forth logical arguments to try to convince each other, we eventually reach a middle ground, or we respectfully agree to disagree. I thought the point of a forum was to discuss, give opinion and learn!

I fully agree with the point that my riding level is such that I will never be able extract the full potential out of the Pani, and equally that better riders can kick my ass on what would be considered lower spec machinery, and honestly they have, many times even. Without wishing to add further fuel to the fire, last Friday such a thing happened when I outrode an "12 S1krr on my '08 848, which ended with the other rider ending up on the floor luckily unhurt. Not because my bike was better but simply because he was an inexperienced rider. I understand the difference.

I would add that whereas i have no doubt that on the S1kRR forum a HP4 would receive a rapturous welcome, here it would only be natural to receive a more guarded response, generally members here ride Panigales or want one. So my opinion should not really have surprised anyone as far as I can see, and did not warrant me being called blind, ranting or delusional.

I'm hardly either, I do also own a Honda and a Yamaha, and being somewhat well known in the bikeing community here, I get offers to ride from both bike owners and dealerships on a weekly basis and regularly have a go.

In a perfect world I wouldn't say no to having a S1kRR/HP4 in my garage but money isn't endless and I'm very happy with my choice and would choose the Pani again against the HP4 or any other bike. I think it's great that BMW are upping their game, I hope Honda Yamaha, KTM, Apprilia, Suzuki and Kawasaki do the same thing!. Obviously that means that my "shit wagon" (some will know!) will be outdated in a year or 2 and I have no problem with that, even if that is in 6 month by a HP4 but IMHO the HP4 is not the bike to best the Pani. You are entitled to your opinion about that.

It can only be good for all bikers to get better bikes out and more choice. Let them fight over our money with the best possible product for the best possible price.

Ask me again in a year or 2 and the answer may well be different, but today, for me, with the information I have, and my priorities, the Pani is THE bike and I'll be damned if I'm going to apologise to anyone for that.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 05:50 AM   #31
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I don't really think the HP4 is a "reaction" to the Panigale. Rather, it is the natural evolution of the line. BMW will likely redesign the bike next year and this bike has probably been the most important motorcyle in their history. They are choosing to add it to the HP lineup for that reason. Also, it's like a last hoorah model before the new one comes.

Didn't Ducati do the exact same thing with the SP model 1198?

I dunno, the pani is cool. The HP4 is cool. Neither one is ugly. I want them both.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 06:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TricoloreSF View Post
Weren't you the one that cancelled your 1199 order and bought a Honda? If you only have negative views and comments of the Duc and don't even have a dog in the fight, why are you still on the forum? Re-read your post above, can you honestly say it's fair and not going a bit overboard?

As you've suggested, I've ridden others, including owning/racing a BMW s1k, prepped as a dedicated, well-equipped track bike. It's silly to even compare two bikes set up for different purposes but, interestingly, when I do, the 1199s easily holds its own...and stock with, an allegedly performance sapping, full system.

As an earlier post suggested with the R1 video, having the best dyno numbers on a "race" bike is still missing the most important component to actually make it go fast. Nothing puts a smile on my face more at a track day than when I see a 250 passing a liter bike in the middle of a turn.....

Can someone please start a poll to see how many of us are tired of threads about "magazine shootouts", "dyno results", "burned thighs", and "comfort seats = wrists hurting". Anyone that says this bike "gives twins a bad name" is plain wrong in my opinion and, thankfully, my opinion is the only one that matters to me....no matter how many times a journalist tells me differently.
+1. I owe you a call buddy.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 09:03 AM   #33
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The Hp4 is a cool bike no doubt, but I question the self adjusting suspension? Not sure that's a good thing or not at the moment? I'll have to reserve judgement until more details are available. However, other than the suspension everything else seems like bolt-ons from their performance bin.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 02:04 PM   #34
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I've no doubt the HP4 is going to be a stellar bike. The entire package is more than just aftermarket parts being slapped on and if they keep consistent with the HP2's engine production philosophy, it'll be a limited production, hand-built motor built for racing. They were able to moderately increase hp and significantly increase torque out of the standard engine. And of the <400 HP2 Enduro's known to have made it to the US, I haven't heard of any having a significant engine issue.

For those that are choosing to skip this bike because of the headlights, you're missing out on something special that a simple set of race fairings could take care of easily. My .02
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Old August 1st, 2012, 03:53 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TricoloreSF View Post
I've no doubt the HP4 is going to be a stellar bike. The entire package is more than just aftermarket parts being slapped on and if they keep consistent with the HP2's engine production philosophy, it'll be a limited production, hand-built motor built for racing. They were able to moderately increase hp and significantly increase torque out of the standard engine. And of the <400 HP2 Enduro's known to have made it to the US, I haven't heard of any having a significant engine issue.

For those that are choosing to skip this bike because of the headlights, you're missing out on something special that a simple set of race fairings could take care of easily. My .02
You're probably right but it is what it. When I road a 10 S1k, when I got off the bike I remember telling my wife that I could easily live with this bike until I had to look at it. If the lights were symmetrical just think how many more bikes they could have sold.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 03:09 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TricoloreSF View Post
Weren't you the one that cancelled your 1199 order and bought a Honda? If you only have negative views and comments of the Duc and don't even have a dog in the fight, why are you still on the forum? Re-read your post above, can you honestly say it's fair and not going a bit overboard?

As you've suggested, I've ridden others, including owning/racing a BMW s1k, prepped as a dedicated, well-equipped track bike. It's silly to even compare two bikes set up for different purposes but, interestingly, when I do, the 1199s easily holds its own...and stock with, an allegedly performance sapping, full system.

As an earlier post suggested with the R1 video, having the best dyno numbers on a "race" bike is still missing the most important component to actually make it go fast. Nothing puts a smile on my face more at a track day than when I see a 250 passing a liter bike in the middle of a turn.....

Can someone please start a poll to see how many of us are tired of threads about "magazine shootouts", "dyno results", "burned thighs", and "comfort seats = wrists hurting". Anyone that says this bike "gives twins a bad name" is plain wrong in my opinion and, thankfully, my opinion is the only one that matters to me....no matter how many times a journalist tells me differently.
I agree with most things you say but don,t bag me out for giving feedback about my experience with a comfort seat vs the standard one. Thats what the 1199 forum is for to talk about the 1199. I am not comparing bikes and I love my 1199. So back off with your fxxking comments about the comfort seat thread. If you don,t like it then don,t read the fxxking thread.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 09:02 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by bradp51 View Post
I agree with most things you say but don,t bag me out for giving feedback about my experience with a comfort seat vs the standard one. Thats what the 1199 forum is for to talk about the 1199. I am not comparing bikes and I love my 1199. So back off with your fxxking comments about the comfort seat thread. If you don,t like it then don,t read the fxxking thread.
Whoa, easy there fella. I take it you were sitting on the comfort seat while typing this?

Correct, it's a forum about a bike so I should be able to express my opinion and I did. No need to take it personal.

Lastly, did your wrists hurt from typing your reply? Kidding! So don't get bent outta shape.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 11:47 AM   #38
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I Ride: DUCATI 1199 S TRI ,Ducati 1198 SP 2011, Suzuki GSXR 1000 K6
Is the HP package similar to the S ABS

they even changed the rear tire to a 200/55/17
DDC, et c etc etc
2013 BMW HP4 S1000RR First Look - Motorcycle USA
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