No Ethanol Gas makes a BIG difference - Page 2

d1098man · August 5th, 2012, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntiHero

Ethanol and Octane ratings should be separated. You can have high octane with no ethanol and low octane with ethanol. USA uses ethanol only because corn-farming lobbyists have wrapped a nice "made in USA" bow around corn-based fuels so they can make more money. Ethanol is to cars as High Fructose Corn Syrup is to bodies.

u can say that again

mrmaloo32 · August 5th, 2012, 10:38 PM

98 all the way
I can get 101 at 1 servo but have not done that yet
- ( for melborne guys the new BP on eastlink )

Yimma · September 7th, 2012, 05:22 PM

Found some ethanol free fuel on a little airfield 25 miles north of me. Tried it and will definatally be buy it from now on. Went there with two 5gallon jugs that cost me $48.60 to fill both. Bike run so much smoother. It's 91 octane by the way. No popping, smooth, between 3and 4000 rpm, huge differance. If you can get some, must give it a try.

RSR racer · September 7th, 2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yimma

Found some ethanol free fuel on a little airfield 25 miles north of me. Tried it and will definatally be buy it from now on. Went there with two 5gallon jugs that cost me $48.60 to fill both. Bike run so much smoother. It's 91 octane by the way. No popping, smooth, between 3and 4000 rpm, huge differance. If you can get some, must give it a try.

Air fields......hmmmm.... Got a few around here. Did not consider that. What oct was helping your bike run so nicely? I've been using ethanol eliminators and getting better responses throughout the power band.

Xbox · September 7th, 2012, 09:02 PM

FWIW, Ducati specify 95-98RON and no more than 10% ethanol.

I use 98, even though 100 is readily available.

Gt6Racer · September 8th, 2012, 05:14 AM

Guys

Remember when talking about octane there are several measurements. RON and MON the USA typically uses an average of them called AKI while the EU uses RON. Be careful with aviation or racing gas as some of it still has high tetraethyl lead content that will destroy your cats ( if you haven't tossed them). Some racing gas also has no significant additive packages which is fine for a carb fed V8 that gets a rebuild 3 times a year (but not for my Pani). Marinias are a good source of alcohol free gas as people have mentioned. There are also a couple of web pages and apps that ferret out the good stuff for you.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
Find ethanol-free E0 gas stations
Find ethanol free gas near you!

Some of us guys racing vintage cars also do a little home blending of various commercially available hydrocarbons, but I'd stick to Ultra94 and Avgas or racing gas blends if you don't have a good stocking dealer of proper racing gas. Remember too much octane rating is a waste of money.

Sunoco Race Fuels | Fuel Comparison Chart
road racing fuel, flat track racing fuel

If you can get it Sunoco 260GT is a great choice and even actually legal in 49 states (guess who's the outlier) AKI of 100, proper cleaning additives and no metals.

I also notice a substantial difference in performance based on gasoline source. So far Sunoco Ultra93 seems best pump gas in my area. some of the other brands of 92/93 AKI are horrible.

Wiki has a reasonable article on octane ratings.

Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hope you can find some near you!

markm · September 8th, 2012, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryG

I guess great minds think alike.lol.. tried that already at different marinas and they all say the same thing, the watercraft has to be present for the sale of the fuel, no containers.

If you haven't checked it out. "puregas.org"

They list "most" of the gas stations in your area that have ethanol free fuel.

Gt6Racer · September 8th, 2012, 05:21 AM

260GT has some alcohol 260GTX does not

tbot · September 8th, 2012, 07:37 AM

The main reason for the better gas mileage and more power is the chemical energy between ethanol and gas. Ethanol has about 80% of the chemical energy of gasoline, so using the same volume of ethanol vs gas will result in 80% less power, roughly.

Now the advantages of ethanol are very numerous, but I highly doubt this bike can fully take advantage of them. Ethanol burns much cooler than gas (lower chemical energy output) so therefore you can advance the timing drastically without getting and pre detonation due to cooler cylinder temps. These gains/advantages are mainly noticeable and used in boosted motors, turbo cars for instance. Not only can they raise the boost levels, so long as the mechanical components can withstand it, they can advance the timing to the extreme. The downside to this however, is that when running larger ethanol based fuels, read e85, the fuel economy goes to shit because you have to command ~20% more fueling in the tune to just make up the power by not running gasoline.

On a completely different matter, the lower octane rating fuels have higher chemical energy output, as they burn hotter, bigger explosion, they're more prone to pre detonation. So the basic rule of thumb is run the lowest octane rated gasoline you can without getting knock.

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August 5th, 2012, 10:38 PM	#22
mrmaloo32 Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Australia Posts: 244 Thanks: 1 I Ride: Full Custom Victory Hammer, Arlen Ness Victory Vision,2007 R1, Husaberg 570,Ducati 1199 S	98 all the way I can get 101 at 1 servo but have not done that yet - ( for melborne guys the new BP on eastlink )

September 7th, 2012, 05:22 PM	#23
Yimma Junior Member Joined: Aug 2012 From: Boxford massachusetts Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 I Ride: Panigale	Found some ethanol free fuel on a little airfield 25 miles north of me. Tried it and will definatally be buy it from now on. Went there with two 5gallon jugs that cost me $48.60 to fill both. Bike run so much smoother. It's 91 octane by the way. No popping, smooth, between 3and 4000 rpm, huge differance. If you can get some, must give it a try.

September 7th, 2012, 09:02 PM	#25
Xbox Senior Member Joined: Jan 2012 From: The Med Posts: 1,612 Thanks: 76 I Ride: 1199 Tric	FWIW, Ducati specify 95-98RON and no more than 10% ethanol. I use 98, even though 100 is readily available.

September 8th, 2012, 05:14 AM	#26
Gt6Racer Member Joined: Jun 2012 From: Ohio Posts: 39 Thanks: 5 I Ride: 1199s, Tuono 1000R, RZ 350, CR500R	Guys Remember when talking about octane there are several measurements. RON and MON the USA typically uses an average of them called AKI while the EU uses RON. Be careful with aviation or racing gas as some of it still has high tetraethyl lead content that will destroy your cats ( if you haven't tossed them). Some racing gas also has no significant additive packages which is fine for a carb fed V8 that gets a rebuild 3 times a year (but not for my Pani). Marinias are a good source of alcohol free gas as people have mentioned. There are also a couple of web pages and apps that ferret out the good stuff for you. Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada Find ethanol-free E0 gas stations Find ethanol free gas near you! Some of us guys racing vintage cars also do a little home blending of various commercially available hydrocarbons, but I'd stick to Ultra94 and Avgas or racing gas blends if you don't have a good stocking dealer of proper racing gas. Remember too much octane rating is a waste of money. Sunoco Race Fuels \| Fuel Comparison Chart road racing fuel, flat track racing fuel If you can get it Sunoco 260GT is a great choice and even actually legal in 49 states (guess who's the outlier) AKI of 100, proper cleaning additives and no metals. I also notice a substantial difference in performance based on gasoline source. So far Sunoco Ultra93 seems best pump gas in my area. some of the other brands of 92/93 AKI are horrible. Wiki has a reasonable article on octane ratings. Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Hope you can find some near you!

September 8th, 2012, 05:21 AM	#28
Gt6Racer Member Joined: Jun 2012 From: Ohio Posts: 39 Thanks: 5 I Ride: 1199s, Tuono 1000R, RZ 350, CR500R	260GT has some alcohol 260GTX does not

September 8th, 2012, 07:37 AM	#29
tbot Senior Member Joined: Aug 2012 From: Denver, CO Posts: 100 Thanks: 10	The main reason for the better gas mileage and more power is the chemical energy between ethanol and gas. Ethanol has about 80% of the chemical energy of gasoline, so using the same volume of ethanol vs gas will result in 80% less power, roughly. Now the advantages of ethanol are very numerous, but I highly doubt this bike can fully take advantage of them. Ethanol burns much cooler than gas (lower chemical energy output) so therefore you can advance the timing drastically without getting and pre detonation due to cooler cylinder temps. These gains/advantages are mainly noticeable and used in boosted motors, turbo cars for instance. Not only can they raise the boost levels, so long as the mechanical components can withstand it, they can advance the timing to the extreme. The downside to this however, is that when running larger ethanol based fuels, read e85, the fuel economy goes to shit because you have to command ~20% more fueling in the tune to just make up the power by not running gasoline. On a completely different matter, the lower octane rating fuels have higher chemical energy output, as they burn hotter, bigger explosion, they're more prone to pre detonation. So the basic rule of thumb is run the lowest octane rated gasoline you can without getting knock.