Base vs Tri Fueling and Performance - Page 2

TricoloreSF · August 9th, 2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerNation

Maybe it just needs race fuel.

My butt dyno says I spent 1800 bucks on a carbon fiber exhaust shield. I couldnt tell much of a difference in power between slip-ons and the full system other than a twitchy throttle. I cant compare the base as I had the slip-ons from day 1.

Like others I've tried 100 and 110 too but you really should be mapping for different octanes too. Bazzaz will have their unit available in 3-4 weeks.

And just to be clear, we really are splitting hairs on a lot of this. You can still work around the fueling issues and ride the piss out of the bike on the track. The best throttle control unit is still and always will be your wrist.

Andy1199 · August 9th, 2012, 01:01 PM

I'm wondering if maybe there is a big difference between engines. I rode the dealers S with stock pipes before my Tri and it was a nail, my Tri is smooth in comparison and I still think its smoother since I put the full system on. Maybe there is a tolerance issue or something like fuel pumps etc. mine is sweet as a nut, no flat spot and fine around town, no snatchiness or roughness. Maybe I just got a good one

ChamMTB · August 9th, 2012, 01:07 PM

I have an S model and the throttle is snatchy and it is impossible to get a smooth roll-on from a closed throttle. I have a mate who has a Tri and his issues are exactly the same.

He has a full RS exhaust, and I have the normal full Termi system. Same issue. First touch of the throttle gives a "thump" of throttle no matter how gently you roll-on. Which given that you are usually at max lean at this point - is unhelpful.

Only way to avoid it is to switch to 195Lo throttle - which has suffers less from this (not completely cured, but significantly improved) but then you lose all connection with your throttle thereafter and it is like pulling on an elastic band in terms of throttle response.

This is possibly a mapping issue, possibly an impossibility of fuelling such enormous pistons to start up from an almost closed throttle. Am hoping it's the former.

We need a new "up map" that has a very gentle first touch of the throttle (to maintain stability when you first touch throttle), with a smoothing out of the throttle at 1-4k revs (when it "hunts") and then we need the race throttle response thereafter (where it is good).

Over to the software writers most likely.......

jarelj · August 9th, 2012, 06:54 PM

There is no difference in engines between any of the Panigale models.

Andy1199 · August 10th, 2012, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarelj

There is no difference in engines between any of the Panigale models.

No I don't meant that, I mean between individual engines regardless of model. Lots of riders complaining but a fair few saying smooth, no snatchiness or hunting etc like mine.

CaliDuc · August 10th, 2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve B

Seems to me he already owns one. And a Tri. And has ridden them both to compare before posting. Who else fits that description... Hands?

I know he has a base as he stated that in his opening statement. Later he stated he had a TRI. However, he does NOT have the 1199RS kit from Ducati Performance. Thus, I am saying have a base WITH a 1199RS kit to complement the TRI.

efna · August 10th, 2012, 05:05 PM

I have the base model. I have not noticed any of the hesitation, hunting or surging issues that some are reporting in either hi or lo mode.

1198freak · August 14th, 2012, 11:25 AM

I have a base model and was surprised at how smooth the fueling is, it gives me exactly what I ask for, no more no less. Makes it easy to pick up the throttle at the apex and manage exit speed. I may have felt very minimal surging at around 5k rpm a couple times, but its so minimal that its not an issue. I am not surprised at the issues that Tri owners are having, from what iv'e seen Ducati's usually take a ton of work to get the fueling with non OEM exhausts right. Sometimes even with OEM exhausts. I think it may be a dealer issue, the dealers put on the Termi's and maybe dont install the proper map, or worse just try to use the stock map.. I think to get an aftermarket exhaust system running properly you need to make sure the dealer does everything correctly as far as the software upgrades, THEN you need to take the bike to a specialist and have either a Power Commander or a Bazzaz unit installed with a custom tune. I would also be wary of exhaust manufacturers that claim their systems (either slip on or full system) are designed for use with no fueling changes, in my opinion that is total bullshit.

zvez · August 14th, 2012, 11:27 AM

yep hands down this is the best fueled duc I've ever owned, not perfect but pretty darned close in a bike that is stock and meets all emissions requirements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1198freak

I have a base model and was surprised at how smooth the fueling is, it gives me exactly what I ask for, no more no less. Makes it easy to pick up the throttle at the apex and manage exit speed. I may have felt very minimal surging at around 5k rpm a couple times, but its so minimal that its not an issue. I am not surprised at the issues that Tri owners are having, from what iv'e seen Ducati's usually take a ton of work to get the fueling with non OEM exhausts right. Sometimes even with OEM exhausts. I think it may be a dealer issue, the dealers put on the Termi's and maybe dont install the proper map, or worse just try to use the stock map.. I think to get an aftermarket exhaust system running properly you need to make sure the dealer does everything correctly as far as the software upgrades, THEN you need to take the bike to a specialist and have either a Power Commander or a Bazzaz unit installed with a custom tune. I would also be wary of exhaust manufacturers that claim their systems (either slip on or full system) are designed for use with no fueling changes, in my opinion that is total bullshit.

rm4two · August 14th, 2012, 12:09 PM

I've only noticed poor fueling with my base on two occasions. The first is existing a really slow corner in anything other than first gear. I bogs and surges until the RPMs come up. The second is when I removed the Term Slip-On upmap but still had the slip-ons installed. It ran like crap at anything below 6k rpms.

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August 9th, 2012, 01:01 PM	#22
Andy1199 Senior Member Joined: Apr 2012 From: UK Posts: 157 Thanks: 2 I Ride: 1199 Tricolore, Multistrada Pikes Peak, 748R	I'm wondering if maybe there is a big difference between engines. I rode the dealers S with stock pipes before my Tri and it was a nail, my Tri is smooth in comparison and I still think its smoother since I put the full system on. Maybe there is a tolerance issue or something like fuel pumps etc. mine is sweet as a nut, no flat spot and fine around town, no snatchiness or roughness. Maybe I just got a good one

August 9th, 2012, 01:07 PM	#23
ChamMTB Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: London Posts: 38 Thanks: 2	I have an S model and the throttle is snatchy and it is impossible to get a smooth roll-on from a closed throttle. I have a mate who has a Tri and his issues are exactly the same. He has a full RS exhaust, and I have the normal full Termi system. Same issue. First touch of the throttle gives a "thump" of throttle no matter how gently you roll-on. Which given that you are usually at max lean at this point - is unhelpful. Only way to avoid it is to switch to 195Lo throttle - which has suffers less from this (not completely cured, but significantly improved) but then you lose all connection with your throttle thereafter and it is like pulling on an elastic band in terms of throttle response. This is possibly a mapping issue, possibly an impossibility of fuelling such enormous pistons to start up from an almost closed throttle. Am hoping it's the former. We need a new "up map" that has a very gentle first touch of the throttle (to maintain stability when you first touch throttle), with a smoothing out of the throttle at 1-4k revs (when it "hunts") and then we need the race throttle response thereafter (where it is good). Over to the software writers most likely.......

August 9th, 2012, 06:54 PM	#24
jarelj Senior Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: Omaha, NE USA Posts: 347 Thanks: 33 I Ride: 1199 Panigale	There is no difference in engines between any of the Panigale models.

August 10th, 2012, 05:05 PM	#27
efna Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: Peoria, AZ Posts: 335 Thanks: 15 I Ride: GSXR750 K7, 1199 Panigale	I have the base model. I have not noticed any of the hesitation, hunting or surging issues that some are reporting in either hi or lo mode.

August 14th, 2012, 11:25 AM	#28
1198freak Senior Member Joined: Nov 2011 From: California Posts: 146 Thanks: 7	I have a base model and was surprised at how smooth the fueling is, it gives me exactly what I ask for, no more no less. Makes it easy to pick up the throttle at the apex and manage exit speed. I may have felt very minimal surging at around 5k rpm a couple times, but its so minimal that its not an issue. I am not surprised at the issues that Tri owners are having, from what iv'e seen Ducati's usually take a ton of work to get the fueling with non OEM exhausts right. Sometimes even with OEM exhausts. I think it may be a dealer issue, the dealers put on the Termi's and maybe dont install the proper map, or worse just try to use the stock map.. I think to get an aftermarket exhaust system running properly you need to make sure the dealer does everything correctly as far as the software upgrades, THEN you need to take the bike to a specialist and have either a Power Commander or a Bazzaz unit installed with a custom tune. I would also be wary of exhaust manufacturers that claim their systems (either slip on or full system) are designed for use with no fueling changes, in my opinion that is total bullshit.

August 14th, 2012, 12:09 PM	#30
rm4two Senior Member Joined: Jun 2012 From: Phoenix,AZ Posts: 792 Thanks: 75 I Ride: 1199 Panigale	I've only noticed poor fueling with my base on two occasions. The first is existing a really slow corner in anything other than first gear. I bogs and surges until the RPMs come up. The second is when I removed the Term Slip-On upmap but still had the slip-ons installed. It ran like crap at anything below 6k rpms.