Denver Rick

I just recently got my Tricolore. No need to go on for an hour of how much I love it. I'm setting the mapping modes with one set for my daily commute. I'm looking to soften up the shocks quite a bit for such a thing. Low speed, downtown, very bumpy. I realize this will be quite personal, but does anybody have any recommendations for settings? I'm sure will take a bunch of trial and error, just looking for a good place to start, as opposed to stock settings.

supduc10

Try the wet settings first,they are the softest out of the presets. If still too hard go into suspension setting menu take a note of the wet settings for reference then adjust them a couple of clicks at a time in the softer direction. If you run out of clicks and still too hard then try binge eating and bulk up a bit lol.

Denver Rick

To soften up, is it appropriate to increase compression setting/number equally for compression and rebound? Or is there some kind of ratio or something I should be concerned about. I guess I'm wondering if there is some counterintuitive relationship between compression and rebound. Or can I just, for example, try increasing each setting by three and go from there.

And no doubt, I could use a few pounds to solve the problem. Maybe I'll just wear some rocks in my pockets.

Thansk for the help.

Denver Rick

Well this may be the problem, looks like my wet compression setting was set to a very stiff 28, sport 16 and race 10. The opposite of what it should be. Looks like somebody tweeked the mapping before I got it. I have customized everything else in the mapping, so I'd hate to set them all back to default. Can somebody tell me what the default compression settings are for race, sport and wet? Be nice if they put that in the manual.

Steve B

You have it backwards.

On pg. 119 of the manual, it says, "By increasing the click setting you decrease the hydraulic damping, by decreasing the click setting you increase the hydraulic damping." Same as clicks out from full in if you were twisting the knobs yourself. So 28 is 18 clicks softer damping than 10, as you'd expect.

As for default settings, they do list 10R/8C for the fork and 10/10 for the shock as default. Guessing that's race mode, and they don't give the rest. Easy to reset the other bits so I'd just pull the default reset on the modes to get back to square one. But you probably should look at putting the rear link in P if it's not already there to soften it up for the low speed downtown bumps you mentioned.

Denver Rick

Ug. That is what I thought and my shop told me I was wrong. Thanks a ton. I am on progressive. Just looks like I need a but adjustment on my pre load of I'm still feeling like it is too stiff on 28. Thanks for the help.

Denver Rick

Though I also realize that it just may ride in a different way than I've come to expect on my '10 Aprilia RSV4. I got very used to that which was exceptionally smooth and the Pani is taking some getting used to. In a month I may be bitching about it acting like a pogo stick.

Thanks again for the help.

whl3

No matter what you try, the electronic suspension adjustments in "WET", "SPORT", or "RACE" do very little, if anything, to make the suspension more compliant. The general consensus is that the suspension is over-sprung both front and rear. The current September issue of Motorcycle Consumer News hits the nail on the head. The only success that I've had in softening the suspension is going to the "Progressive" setting on the rear swingarm adjustment rod and making small changes from there. These changes do not appear to upset the stability of the bike. No one can give me a satisfactory response for the purpose of the "Flat" and "Progressive" settings and the O/M is no help. All of Ducati's other bikes in the current model lineup are listed as having a "Progressive" rear suspension. All of the 1199's are delivered in the "Flat" position and none of the existing road tests that I've read address this issue. It also appears that all of the pictures of bikes in road tests are tested in the "Flat" position. My take on the "Flat" position is that it's perfect for billiard top flat surface riding such as the Yas Marina F1 track that the 1199's were tested on by journalists at the bike's introduction. Many owners have gone to the DP "Comfort Seat" as a band-aid to cure suspension ills. My experience is that it is no help and upsets the ergonomics of the seating position. Ducati is well aware of this suspension situation, as well as, the fuel mapping problems. Hopefully the Audi connection will help rectify these blemishes on an otherwise spectacular motorcycle.

Steve B

Re: the purpose of flat vs. progressive, virtually all street-focused motorcycles come equipped to carry a passenger. As a result, the rear suspension needs to be able to support a lot of weight placed high and over the back end to avoid suspension bottoming and generally dangerous behavior. Without a progressive link or spring, you'd have to have a spring so stiff it would beat a single rider to death and lack compliance over the usual road imperfections we all encounter every day.

So manufacturers connect their swingarms to their rear shocks via linkage that provides a progressive ratio. What that means is that in the first part of the suspension travel, 10mm of vertical wheel travel might only compress the shock 3mm (3.33:1 leverage ratio), while in the latter part of the suspension travel when you're approaching bottoming, 10mm of vertical wheel travel would compress the shock more, say for example 7mm (1.43:1 leverage ratio). So it really just changes the leverage ratio so that the "effective" spring rate gets stiffer as the rear end compresses, and softer as it extends. Offroad, the same thing is done to get compliance and traction over smaller bumps with sufficient bottoming resistance over big jumps and impacts, and some of that applies to the street as well.

Some progression is appropriate anywhere, and the more bumpy the surface, the more progression you want up to a point. Too much and the rear end of the bike will wallow, squat and then pack up when it hits the stiff part of the progression curve. Even Ducati's F, "flat" link position is slightly progressive; Roadracingworld published it as having a 2.14% rate of progression at 100mm of wheel travel vs the P position's 14.15% at the same travel. And even the P position is less progressive than the link on the 1198 was, going by Ducati's published graphs. Both F and P positions have the same 2:1 overall motion ratio, so they return the same total wheel travel for the same total shock travel; it's just that with the link in P, the effective spring rate is relatively lower (softer) at first than in F, and then gets higher (stiffer) towards the end.

With the stock spring and riding solo, using P will make the ride smoother over small bumps than in F, but note that it WILL get stiffer once you hit somewhere around half to two-thirds travel. This is so by definition, given the same overall motion ratio; it HAS to catch up. Racetracks, even those less endowed with TLC than new and spendy ones like Yaz, are a ton smoother than public roads. So you don't need to worry so much about bump compliance, plus you're not carrying a passenger, therefore a small amount of progression is appropriate. On the track you're more concerned about chassis pitch control and stability under severe braking and acceleration, which a flatter curve is better for, while on the road you're dealing with a much more variable set of circumstances, thus the need for more adaptability (progression).

I'd say if you're blessed with roads that are particularly smooth and you ride solo all the time, then using the F position and getting the right spring for your weight is likely the best option. However, if your roads are gnarly and/or you tend to like company on back, then P is the way to go, again with a spring change if the stocker's not ideal for your weight. As light and mass-centralized as the Pani is, it's just naturally going to very sensitive to setup for the rider since the rider's a larger percentage of the total package, with the resulting changes in CG, MoI, etc.

Hope all that's of use. Bottom line, budget for springs at least, and tweak away. The Pani is just a motorcycle, with a certain wheelbase, mass, CG, MoI, and suspension. It is tuneable just like all the others, it's just new so the knowledge base is sparse.

bradp51

I think the stock settings are in the manual somewhere for all but I may be wrong.

Remember the default button and you can go back and then write them all down.

bradp51

Mine came delivered in P.

WAfatboy

How heavy are you?

Initially found the DES settings did not make a difference but my weight was the key factor - I changed the rear spring to one rated for 100kg+ because I'm 105kg, now the DES does make a difference and I'm in the process of getting the settings right.

whl3

Steve B, Thanks. I pretty much understand all of what you mentioned but not down to the very technical points as you are blessed to understand. I spoke with the Ohlins rep at both Laguna and Indy, as well as, the Ducati tech reps. I think your statement of "it's just so new that the knowledge base is sparse" is absolutely correct. The only consolation that the Ducati reps could give me is that the O/M is poor and sparse at best in content and that the 2013 model will have a better O/M. I think I have a very tech knowledgeable dealer and he was unaware of the purpose of the Progressive setting other than the O/M suggestion for toting a passenger. It's interesting that you mention that the 1X98 bikes even have a more linear suspension than does the 1199 in the Progressive setting. I have a 1098S and the suspension is much more compliant than is the 1199 even in the progressive setting. First and foremost, the correct sag needs to be set for my weight. When I requested that it be done before taking delivery, the dealer assured me that the spring rate was correct for my riding weight (235#'s; 107kg's) as his sales manager was a similar stature to me but that they like to do it after the 600 mile service when the suspension has had a chance to "work" in. I bought into that but have been frustrated since delivery in trying to tune the suspension even in the Progressive mode to avoid being "beat to death"! I know that Dan Kyle and Race Tech is working on spring rate recommendations. What is the stock spring rate for both the rear shock and front forks?

WAfatboy

As I said, I'm 105kg and I had to change to a stiffer (10?) rear spring.....

Steve B

Your 1098S' greater compliance is not surprising; note that I said the P position is less progressive than the 1198 was, meaning the 1199 still has a more linear rate than the 1X98, even when in it's progressive position. So it's relatively stiffer ratio-wise in the early part of the travel. I may pull my shock off and map the curves in P and F just for the heck of it since there don't seem to any published, accurate ones out there. However, I am certain Kyle and others have been at it already and will have some decent solutions on the way. GMD Computrack Atlanta's not too far a trek for me, and I've toyed with the idea of having them measure the bike and render some opinions on what it needs. That's only a maybe at this point, but they can certainly take the vitals and figure out a good direction to go in.

Funny you mention your dealer saying the bike comes dialed for your weight at 235. When I asked mine to check the sag on delivery I was told the same thing, but I'm about 70lbs lighter than you. Struck me as a bit lacking, but setting sag is so easy it didn't really bother me - just rode it home and did it myself. Took lots of preload out at both ends to get it in the ballpark for the street (40mm F/35mm R).

Not sure on OEM spring rates; mine's an el-cheapo base model anyway so it may vary from the S. Looking forward to seeing some aftermarket springs pop up for the Sachs/Marzocchi, as I'm likely to try that route prior to going the full-on Ohlins route. Rates shouldn't be hard to figure once someone's looked at the motion ratio and curves on the rear linkage.

whl3

Thanks again Steve B. I'll continue to follow this thread and if you dig up anything else, I'd appreciate having it posted. I honestly think that if you got your Standard to do track time, you probably made the wisest decision. Making suspension settings at speed on a motorcycle is like texting on the San Diego Freeway in LA traffic! All of this electronic gimmickry is just something else to fail and for most people will be nothing more than bling! One thing the Ohlins rep did tell me was that Ducati only used Ohlins' hardware recommendations for the 1199 but contrary to the MTS1200, Ohlins did not supply the suspension software for the 1199. Ducati did their own.

xpercad

Hi Steve B, you mention a rider sag ballpark for the street (40mm F/35mm R).

When measuring rider rear sag do you have to take away 10mm because the TTX36 has a top out spring, meaning the actual measurement (difference between suspension fully unloaded and suspension loaded with motorcycle + rider) should be 25mm instead of 35mm ???

I have seen somewhere that when you take the measurement with the rear suspension unloaded (rear wheel in the air) and you manually force the wheel all the way down, you are already cancelling the top out spring. Is this true ???

In the following manual (page 10):

http://www.oehlins.ch/data/122884090..._TTX36MCRT.pdf

There is no mention of a top out spring to be considered. but I have read elsewhere that you have to compensate with 10mm for the top-out spring.

A 10mm difference is quite a lot !!!

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Steve B

Will do. Funny thing, you can probably adjust the rear comp/rebound at speed more easily on the base than you can the S since all you have to do is reach down by your leg and twist the dials. No worrying about shutting off the throttle and holding the mode button or any such. Changing fork settings at a stop is probably as quick or quicker too. No need to drill down through the menus, just pull over, hop off, whip the allen wrench out of your pocket and go at it.

The idea of electronic suspension adjustment is a good one, but the current implementation just didn't do it for me. What BMW are doing with the HP4 is more like it; expect the Pani to get similar before long.

As for xpercad's question on sag, mine has the Sachs rear so probably not a good number for the S. My numbers are total sag from wheels in the air to me on the bike, and were intended to get the bike stable over rough roads. Not entirely successful, but a big improvement over as-delivered. Still running it in F; will mess around with P soon, but suspect that will just make balance an issue with the over stiff fork springs for my 165lbs-in-gear.