Advice? - Page 2

RSR racer · September 15th, 2012, 05:59 PM

Truly, you are "Elite". In a class by yourself.

elitesoldier357 · September 15th, 2012, 06:07 PM

Let me ask you this, at which point in my first post on this did I look like I was "bitching?" I was stating the facts of what the bike was doing in order to figure out what could be causing the problem so I may have it fixed. People like Antihero are actually helping. You are not. Stop assuming title names have anything to do with this. Been going by that name for everything I use as a general log on name for many years.

P.S. According to my tech he agrees with the problems I have been having and said he will most likely be getting me a new engine under warranty and sending the one I have back to Ducati for further diagnosis. FYI

bradp51 · September 15th, 2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elitesoldier357

So you're telling me the manufacturers error that caused my spark lug wire to be severed and catch fire was "my fault?" And just because some of us ride our bikes hard doesn't make us wrong. I can't help the faults with my engine. It isn't me who is breaking the bike. Are you just that ignorant that you assume it's always the riders fault? Just cause I don't baby the power in my bike like you doesn't make me wrong, cause guess what... IM NOT YOU!!! If the bike can't take being ridden hard than oh well, that's Ducati's problem, not mine. I check my bike over every couple of weeks and report every small detail to my dealer for them to fix. So call me all the names you want, I don't care. All I'm doing is reporting the issues on here to figure out if other people have them too, and to get some wise advice, which obviously isn't coming from you. You're here to spread you're hate on others, make yourself feel like a bigger man. You're mad cause you didn't do your research and I put you in your place. Go ahead, call me more names. I can't believe I took a bullet for shitheads like you who have no respect.

Now that you have put this out there.

"Go ahead, call me more names. I can't believe I took a bullet for shitheads like you who have no respect."

Elite you are really making yourself a target. Excuse the pun. First of all there are not too many members of the SF community around the world that use names like "Elitesoldier" most SF guys I know are a bit more humble and professional than that.

Tell us about the bullet you took. I respect your military service but you are carrying on a bit about your bike. I remember the fire thread. If your bikes problems are a warranty issue and some failed engine component then just get it fixed and enjoy your bike.

What some are saying including me is that you may have caused some of this latest problem yourself by not following the recommended break in procedure. Maybe, maybe not.

What I do not understand is how anyone can be so arrogant as to think they know better than all the engineers and designers at Ducati who have formal qualifications in engineering who are the ones that actually know how this bike is built and designed.

How can some self professed expert on you tube know more about an 1199 than the Ducati engineers who designed it. What is the make up of the alloys that go into the rings pistons ? What treatment is done to the barrels ?

Who knows ? Ducati knows and its "Commercial in Confidence" in other words all manufacturers have their secrets on how they develop their products. All the different companies have their own tricks to try to develop more performance etc. They don,t share that stuff on you tube.

I trust Ducati has very good reasons for specifying their break in procedure. Most people don,t even read their manual so this is the reason that Ducati does not write 30 pages into the manual specifying why they have recommended a particular break in procedure. I am sure they could confuse most of us with a lot of very technical information about the metalurgy involved in their engine building processes etc.

Anyway forgive my rant. But I am curious about the story behind "taking the bullet" and about where the handle comes from. Most elite soldiers I know don't go around telling everyone how elite they are.

And if you have decided the 1199 Panigale is not for you then, sell it and buy another bike. And I am sure there will be a forum for your next bike to share positive experiences with like minded owners.

At the moment you are not sharing too much positive energy on the 1199 forum.

elitesoldier357 · September 16th, 2012, 12:47 AM

Mainly what I mean is I don't like the disrespect coming from this guy @ RSR Racer, when I put my life on the line for people like him. Especially with the "mommy/daddy comments" I earned every penny I have to pay for this bike, I paid top dollar for the looks, the technology and the performance and what I had received instead was a lemon.

Secondly, I've reiterated time and time again that the bike ran just fine before the fire, and now it doesn't which, they say they are probably going to just give me another engine (I hope). And my title is just one that I have been using for many many years. Its nothing more than a title people (If you would like me to change it I will).

I never said I was "SF" either, so I'm not sure where you got that from... oh wait... I forgot... Only SF is "elite" right? Everyone else is second to none. If you must know I served 4 years active duty in the 82nd Airborne Division. Technically I took shrapnel, but you can't really tell people "I took shrapnel for you" so that's why I say I "Took a bullet". Nor do I think I am smarter than most engineers, however... Since I am going to Michigan State University currently for Mechanical Engineering and have also taken classes on the mechanics of engines, it is sort of my job to know how the engine works including break in. If these bikes aren't prone to beyond normal wear and tear, than why have service intervals and checks that we have to pay for in the first place?

Also, you all know just as well as I do that no machine performs exactly the same due to the different tolerances and torquing of the parts. Lastly, machines will break and that is expected. I pull my fairings off, check the coolant, oil, gaskets, etc. almost every week. I took pictures of each of the issues I found to document it in mainly to show my tech, secondly for my own records. I rode my bike for two weeks before the fire (2,000 miles) then was without it for almost two months, now I have almost 6,600 miles on the engine (averages out to almost 1,000 miles a week). I ride bikes hard, every day unless there is literally snow on the ground. I love riding, I love Ducati, but right now it has been a big dissapointment for reliability, even though I check it every week.

The thing that sickens me the most is that I live in a country and defended a country that will criticize me for an "Internet name tag" or for making a big deal out of a major situation (The bike fire) and then criticize me again for so much as asking for some advice on what to do when I'm getting screwed out of what used to be a proper running bike. What a load of BS! A good number of the people on this forum are not looking to give advice, they give "beliefs". That they're answer is the right one over everyone elses. Even though most of the time it is misinformation and not researched well enough to give it in the first place. Do your research before you give out your advice. Thats my message.

Sorry if I was angry and pissed off and vented on some pointless forum about how my ass was nearly cooked while I had a catastrophic engine failure on my $20,000 machine. I didn't even say anything starting this thread that would imply I was "bitching" about anything. I was stating the facts of what was going on with the bike in hopes that someone might give me a smart and simple answer as to what was causing the problem. Right now its throwing the expert techs and myself a curve ball as to what could be the issue. This whole arguing is BS in the first place, I don't like to argue about something that has no means to an end.

bradp51 · September 16th, 2012, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elitesoldier357

Mainly what I mean is I don't like the disrespect coming from this guy @ RSR Racer, when I put my life on the line for people like him. Especially with the "mommy/daddy comments" I earned every penny I have to pay for this bike, I paid top dollar for the looks, the technology and the performance and what I had received instead was a lemon.

Secondly, I've reiterated time and time again that the bike ran just fine before the fire, and now it doesn't which, they say they are probably going to just give me another engine (I hope). And my title is just one that I have been using for many many years. Its nothing more than a title people (If you would like me to change it I will).

I never said I was "SF" either, so I'm not sure where you got that from... oh wait... I forgot... Only SF is "elite" right? Everyone else is second to none. If you must know I served 4 years active duty in the 82nd Airborne Division. Technically I took shrapnel, but you can't really tell people "I took shrapnel for you" so that's why I say I "Took a bullet". Nor do I think I am smarter than most engineers, however... Since I am going to Michigan State University currently for Mechanical Engineering and have also taken classes on the mechanics of engines, it is sort of my job to know how the engine works including break in. If these bikes aren't prone to beyond normal wear and tear, than why have service intervals and checks that we have to pay for in the first place?

Also, you all know just as well as I do that no machine performs exactly the same due to the different tolerances and torquing of the parts. Lastly, machines will break and that is expected. I pull my fairings off, check the coolant, oil, gaskets, etc. almost every week. I took pictures of each of the issues I found to document it in mainly to show my tech, secondly for my own records. I rode my bike for two weeks before the fire (2,000 miles) then was without it for almost two months, now I have almost 6,600 miles on the engine (averages out to almost 1,000 miles a week). I ride bikes hard, every day unless there is literally snow on the ground. I love riding, I love Ducati, but right now it has been a big dissapointment for reliability, even though I check it every week.

The thing that sickens me the most is that I live in a country and defended a country that will criticize me for an "Internet name tag" or for making a big deal out of a major situation (The bike fire) and then criticize me again for so much as asking for some advice on what to do when I'm getting screwed out of what used to be a proper running bike. What a load of BS! A good number of the people on this forum are not looking to give advice, they give "beliefs". That they're answer is the right one over everyone elses. Even though most of the time it is misinformation and not researched well enough to give it in the first place. Do your research before you give out your advice. Thats my message.

Sorry if I was angry and pissed off and vented on some pointless forum about how my ass was nearly cooked while I had a catastrophic engine failure on my $20,000 machine. I didn't even say anything starting this thread that would imply I was "bitching" about anything. I was stating the facts of what was going on with the bike in hopes that someone might give me a smart and simple answer as to what was causing the problem. Right now its throwing the expert techs and myself a curve ball as to what could be the issue. This whole arguing is BS in the first place, I don't like to argue about something that has no means to an end.

No problems mate, I hope you get your bike sorted out. I am sure you will.

You must be fun to be with at the metal detectors at the airport

(shrapnel setting it off)

All the way.

Delta One · September 16th, 2012, 01:23 AM

@ ThomasKenyon My personal favourite was "Thing ran like a raped ape before," I LOL'ed at that one. I'll have to remember that one for future use.

@ RSR Racer and BradP51 I would agree with you both about sticking to Ducati's break in advice. I certainly did so mostly.

In cases like this it could indeed be the excuse an unhelpful dealer uses to deny a claim. Having spent alot of money on a bike like this, with al kinds of new manufacturing and material tech in it, maintaining a valid warranty would certainly seem a wise thing to do. However that is each persons choice to make as an individual and we shouldn't use Elite's misfortune to lambast breaking it in hard when others seem to have done so without incident.

That said we are talking about a bike, which through fault of the dealer, caught fire and had no issues before. Hence it seems very unlikely, but not impossible, that Elite's problem is anything but related to the fire, the damages caused during it and/or the subsequent "repair". I'd say chances are it's 99% sure to be related to that incident.

@ EliteSoldier. I feel very bad for you, the bike is expensive and the whole fire thing should not have happened! I would certainly be mortified if something like that happened to my bike. I sincerely hope that the dealer or Ducati sort it out for you.

Personally I've been very happy with Ducati and my dealer, and I think you know by reading here that your experience has not been a typical one. Hang in there, I'm sure Ducati, even if not your dealer will come through for you, even without resorting to lawyers. These things sometimes take a little time.

You loved the bike before these issues and you know how great it can be so hang in there, although I do also understand the sentiment of not wanting that particular one back. If they do give you a new engine or complete bike under warranty you may want to consider running it in as per the manual now that you've experienced how important it is to have warranty.

Hamish · September 16th, 2012, 01:34 AM

Dude, let me know the outcome. I have issues with mine, albeit slightly different but possibly could have resulted in a fire.

I followed the 'rules' to a certain degree regarding run in but was certainly no slouch.

Anyway I'm getting real sick of reading these posts, running induviduals down. People are entitled to an opinion but what satisfaction is there in insulting someone over what they've done, whether it be right or wrong? If you don't agree move along, find something else to comment on.

I joined this forum for positive, informative posts. As of late they're becoming more of a slinging match as to whose got the best argument!

Get along guys!!!

Gunny Fitz · September 16th, 2012, 07:27 AM

This shit is turning into one of my threads. Chill out everyone please?
Elite PM'd me asking personal advice on this question he posed and said this has gotten out of control. If one honestly does not know something about a topic lets "educate" or offer our experience, always remembering that what we say is OUR OPINION- and not something carved in stone since before time.

Later today I will be publishing my own thread on this matter and how things get so blown out of proportion. Thanks for reading.

elitesoldier357 · September 16th, 2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta One

@ ThomasKenyon My personal favourite was "Thing ran like a raped ape before," I LOL'ed at that one. I'll have to remember that one for future use.

@ RSR Racer and BradP51 I would agree with you both about sticking to Ducati's break in advice. I certainly did so mostly.

In cases like this it could indeed be the excuse an unhelpful dealer uses to deny a claim. Having spent alot of money on a bike like this, with al kinds of new manufacturing and material tech in it, maintaining a valid warranty would certainly seem a wise thing to do. However that is each persons choice to make as an individual and we shouldn't use Elite's misfortune to lambast breaking it in hard when others seem to have done so without incident.

That said we are talking about a bike, which through fault of the dealer, caught fire and had no issues before. Hence it seems very unlikely, but not impossible, that Elite's problem is anything but related to the fire, the damages caused during it and/or the subsequent "repair". I'd say chances are it's 99% sure to be related to that incident.

@ EliteSoldier. I feel very bad for you, the bike is expensive and the whole fire thing should not have happened! I would certainly be mortified if something like that happened to my bike. I sincerely hope that the dealer or Ducati sort it out for you.

Personally I've been very happy with Ducati and my dealer, and I think you know by reading here that your experience has not been a typical one. Hang in there, I'm sure Ducati, even if not your dealer will come through for you, even without resorting to lawyers. These things sometimes take a little time.

You loved the bike before these issues and you know how great it can be so hang in there, although I do also understand the sentiment of not wanting that particular one back. If they do give you a new engine or complete bike under warranty you may want to consider running it in as per the manual now that you've experienced how important it is to have warranty.

I agree I was angry before during the fire and blamed the wrong people and wanted a lawyer. But in light of what others said in my thread about the fire I took most of yours advice and let the dealer sort everything out. They did a great job of doing so and now I shall let them do the same again. I hope this all is sorted out because I absolutely do love Ducati and their heritage and innovation of designing performance bikes out of this world. A lot of the guys I ride with ask me, "Why pay for a $20,000 bike when you can spend 8K less and get one that'll beat it?" It's more than just a bike, it's a combination of all the right designs. Plus I don't look at face value of a dollar like they do. I think if a lot of the guys I ride with would test ride more bikes and stop looking so much at the price tag they would find a bike that they enjoy 10 fold more.

zvez · September 16th, 2012, 03:53 PM

I've got to hand it to you that you stuck with this bike this long, as you've not had a great experience, I mean most of the riding season your bike's been down and its not running right now apparently.

You've got to have a lot of passion for the brand to put up with that. I've been involved with ducs for years and years but fortunately never had anything remotely like this to test my dedication to the marque!

Quote:

Originally Posted by elitesoldier357

I agree I was angry before during the fire and blamed the wrong people and wanted a lawyer. But in light of what others said in my thread about the fire I took most of yours advice and let the dealer sort everything out. They did a great job of doing so and now I shall let them do the same again. I hope this all is sorted out because I absolutely do love Ducati and their heritage and innovation of designing performance bikes out of this world. A lot of the guys I ride with ask me, "Why pay for a $20,000 bike when you can spend 8K less and get one that'll beat it?" It's more than just a bike, it's a combination of all the right designs. Plus I don't look at face value of a dollar like they do. I think if a lot of the guys I ride with would test ride more bikes and stop looking so much at the price tag they would find a bike that they enjoy 10 fold more.

elitesoldier357 · September 16th, 2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zvez

I've got to hand it to you that you stuck with this bike this long, as you've not had a great experience, I mean most of the riding season your bike's been down and its not running right now apparently.

You've got to have a lot of passion for the brand to put up with that. I've been involved with ducs for years and years but fortunately never had anything remotely like this to test my dedication to the marque!

I am a die hard Ducati rider and enthusiast. My beating heart has been converted to Desmodromic valves. Thanks for the compliment!

Delta One · September 17th, 2012, 01:42 AM

@ Elite I agree 100% Buying a Ducati , atleast for me is not about having the latest and greatest, that's just an added bonus

I just love the design and that L twin growl!! Learning about the tech etc It's more than just a bike and I love my 848 just as much as the Pani. Perhaps strange, but I feel a real connection to a Ducati that I don't get from another brand.

elitesoldier357 · September 17th, 2012, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta One

@ Elite I agree 100% Buying a Ducati , atleast for me is not about having the latest and greatest, that's just an added bonus

I just love the design and that L twin growl!! Learning about the tech etc It's more than just a bike and I love my 848 just as much as the Pani. Perhaps strange, but I feel a real connection to a Ducati that I don't get from another brand.

Exactly how I feel. It has SOUL

bradp51 · September 17th, 2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elitesoldier357

Well a turn for the worst happened today and Ive been bugging my dealer to help me find my power problem. I took the fairings off to take pics of the issues I've been having, put it all back together, started it up, let it warm up. Went to roll out of first and it misses multiple times as if the DTC is kicking in, which its not. I noticed this a little while ago it would miss once or twice at the most out of first gear rolling on, now its just all sorts of jacked up. I revved it and it won't rev past 4 or 5 rpm. It sluggish/missing when it does. It sounds like my compression is shot. I think I have had enough patience with this bike and its problems, it ran hard and strong from 0-2000 miles when the fire happened, and now all the problems stated above, and this rather large issue again. I'm done with this bike, I'm taking it back and I don't wanna see that one again. I've been patient enough. Now my engine is jacked and wont smooth out at all, when u give it throttle it just misses over and over, so now I have another catastrophic engine failure. Plus I never got my towing bill refunded for the last incident which was $165, even though I took the proper steps to get my refund, but I never got a response when I emailed the customer service guy. So not only do I have problems with the bike with power, leaks, and engine failure... but the message I am getting is that I have to pay out of pocket for DUCATI'S mistakes. I'm droppin the bastard off, and I don't want it back. New bike, or refund are the only options.

I understand what you are saying about getting whatever trade in value I can from this bike to get another. But I shouldn't have to pay a dime for their mistakes and for a new bike just because this one isn't running right. I should've let it burn to the ground the first time around. Cause it ran strong and hard and I was more than impressed with the bike before the fire, and now I got a lemon back. None of what I say is directed at any of you .

I'm droppin the bastard off, and I don't want it back. New bike, or refund are the only options.

but I've really reached the limit of my patience with Ducati

Delta One · September 18th, 2012, 04:26 AM

That might seem contradictory, BUT........

He is talking about that specific bike which caught fire and been giving problems ever since. He wants a new Bike (Panigale) or a refund (so he can go to another dealer and buy another Panigale!)

Pls, let's not argue.

September 15th, 2012, 06:07 PM	#22
elitesoldier357 Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: Lansing, Michigan Posts: 638 Thanks: 62 I Ride: Ducati 1199 Base Model	Let me ask you this, at which point in my first post on this did I look like I was "bitching?" I was stating the facts of what the bike was doing in order to figure out what could be causing the problem so I may have it fixed. People like Antihero are actually helping. You are not. Stop assuming title names have anything to do with this. Been going by that name for everything I use as a general log on name for many years. P.S. According to my tech he agrees with the problems I have been having and said he will most likely be getting me a new engine under warranty and sending the one I have back to Ducati for further diagnosis. FYI Last edited by elitesoldier357; September 15th, 2012 at 06:11 PM.

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September 15th, 2012, 05:59 PM	#21
RSR racer Senior Member Joined: Jun 2012 From: Long Island, NY Posts: 764 Thanks: 106 I Ride: '13 Panigale R '12 1199S/ABS, '12 Multistrada S, '09 1098R Bayliss LE, 1998 custom rigid chopper	Truly, you are "Elite". In a class by yourself.

September 16th, 2012, 12:47 AM	#24
elitesoldier357 Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: Lansing, Michigan Posts: 638 Thanks: 62 I Ride: Ducati 1199 Base Model	Mainly what I mean is I don't like the disrespect coming from this guy @ RSR Racer, when I put my life on the line for people like him. Especially with the "mommy/daddy comments" I earned every penny I have to pay for this bike, I paid top dollar for the looks, the technology and the performance and what I had received instead was a lemon. Secondly, I've reiterated time and time again that the bike ran just fine before the fire, and now it doesn't which, they say they are probably going to just give me another engine (I hope). And my title is just one that I have been using for many many years. Its nothing more than a title people (If you would like me to change it I will). I never said I was "SF" either, so I'm not sure where you got that from... oh wait... I forgot... Only SF is "elite" right? Everyone else is second to none. If you must know I served 4 years active duty in the 82nd Airborne Division. Technically I took shrapnel, but you can't really tell people "I took shrapnel for you" so that's why I say I "Took a bullet". Nor do I think I am smarter than most engineers, however... Since I am going to Michigan State University currently for Mechanical Engineering and have also taken classes on the mechanics of engines, it is sort of my job to know how the engine works including break in. If these bikes aren't prone to beyond normal wear and tear, than why have service intervals and checks that we have to pay for in the first place? Also, you all know just as well as I do that no machine performs exactly the same due to the different tolerances and torquing of the parts. Lastly, machines will break and that is expected. I pull my fairings off, check the coolant, oil, gaskets, etc. almost every week. I took pictures of each of the issues I found to document it in mainly to show my tech, secondly for my own records. I rode my bike for two weeks before the fire (2,000 miles) then was without it for almost two months, now I have almost 6,600 miles on the engine (averages out to almost 1,000 miles a week). I ride bikes hard, every day unless there is literally snow on the ground. I love riding, I love Ducati, but right now it has been a big dissapointment for reliability, even though I check it every week. The thing that sickens me the most is that I live in a country and defended a country that will criticize me for an "Internet name tag" or for making a big deal out of a major situation (The bike fire) and then criticize me again for so much as asking for some advice on what to do when I'm getting screwed out of what used to be a proper running bike. What a load of BS! A good number of the people on this forum are not looking to give advice, they give "beliefs". That they're answer is the right one over everyone elses. Even though most of the time it is misinformation and not researched well enough to give it in the first place. Do your research before you give out your advice. Thats my message. Sorry if I was angry and pissed off and vented on some pointless forum about how my ass was nearly cooked while I had a catastrophic engine failure on my $20,000 machine. I didn't even say anything starting this thread that would imply I was "bitching" about anything. I was stating the facts of what was going on with the bike in hopes that someone might give me a smart and simple answer as to what was causing the problem. Right now its throwing the expert techs and myself a curve ball as to what could be the issue. This whole arguing is BS in the first place, I don't like to argue about something that has no means to an end.

September 16th, 2012, 01:23 AM	#26
Delta One Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Dubai UAE Posts: 466 Thanks: 11 I Ride: 1199 Panigale S Tricolore and an 848	@ ThomasKenyon My personal favourite was "Thing ran like a raped ape before," I LOL'ed at that one. I'll have to remember that one for future use. @ RSR Racer and BradP51 I would agree with you both about sticking to Ducati's break in advice. I certainly did so mostly. In cases like this it could indeed be the excuse an unhelpful dealer uses to deny a claim. Having spent alot of money on a bike like this, with al kinds of new manufacturing and material tech in it, maintaining a valid warranty would certainly seem a wise thing to do. However that is each persons choice to make as an individual and we shouldn't use Elite's misfortune to lambast breaking it in hard when others seem to have done so without incident. That said we are talking about a bike, which through fault of the dealer, caught fire and had no issues before. Hence it seems very unlikely, but not impossible, that Elite's problem is anything but related to the fire, the damages caused during it and/or the subsequent "repair". I'd say chances are it's 99% sure to be related to that incident. @ EliteSoldier. I feel very bad for you, the bike is expensive and the whole fire thing should not have happened! I would certainly be mortified if something like that happened to my bike. I sincerely hope that the dealer or Ducati sort it out for you. Personally I've been very happy with Ducati and my dealer, and I think you know by reading here that your experience has not been a typical one. Hang in there, I'm sure Ducati, even if not your dealer will come through for you, even without resorting to lawyers. These things sometimes take a little time. You loved the bike before these issues and you know how great it can be so hang in there, although I do also understand the sentiment of not wanting that particular one back. If they do give you a new engine or complete bike under warranty you may want to consider running it in as per the manual now that you've experienced how important it is to have warranty.

September 16th, 2012, 01:34 AM	#27
Hamish Senior Member Joined: Jun 2012 From: Wellington New Zealand Posts: 193 Thanks: 1 I Ride: Ducati 1199S	Dude, let me know the outcome. I have issues with mine, albeit slightly different but possibly could have resulted in a fire. I followed the 'rules' to a certain degree regarding run in but was certainly no slouch. Anyway I'm getting real sick of reading these posts, running induviduals down. People are entitled to an opinion but what satisfaction is there in insulting someone over what they've done, whether it be right or wrong? If you don't agree move along, find something else to comment on. I joined this forum for positive, informative posts. As of late they're becoming more of a slinging match as to whose got the best argument! Get along guys!!!

September 16th, 2012, 07:27 AM	#28
Gunny Fitz Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Washington, DC Posts: 1,572 Thanks: 284 I Ride: Panigale Tri-Colore W "Bling!"	This shit is turning into one of my threads. Chill out everyone please? Elite PM'd me asking personal advice on this question he posed and said this has gotten out of control. If one honestly does not know something about a topic lets "educate" or offer our experience, always remembering that what we say is *OUR OPINION*- and not something carved in stone since before time. Later today I will be publishing my own thread on this matter and how things get so blown out of proportion. Thanks for reading.

September 17th, 2012, 01:42 AM	#32
Delta One Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Dubai UAE Posts: 466 Thanks: 11 I Ride: 1199 Panigale S Tricolore and an 848	@ Elite I agree 100% Buying a Ducati , atleast for me is not about having the latest and greatest, that's just an added bonus I just love the design and that L twin growl!! Learning about the tech etc It's more than just a bike and I love my 848 just as much as the Pani. Perhaps strange, but I feel a real connection to a Ducati that I don't get from another brand.

September 18th, 2012, 04:26 AM	#35
Delta One Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Dubai UAE Posts: 466 Thanks: 11 I Ride: 1199 Panigale S Tricolore and an 848	That might seem contradictory, BUT........ He is talking about that specific bike which caught fire and been giving problems ever since. He wants a new Bike (Panigale) or a refund (so he can go to another dealer and buy another Panigale!) Pls, let's not argue.