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Old January 5th, 2013, 01:33 AM   #1
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BMW HP4 vs BMW S1000RR vs Ducati 1199 Panigale S vs Ducati 1199!

Now I don't know how many of you guys have read this article but I'd guess not too many, since more than half of this forums members are american you probably haven't read the magazine MOTORRAD.

They've pitted the standard S1000RR against the HP4, and then the standard 1199 against the 1199S - and they also compared laps between both the BMW's and the 1199's!

The track is Calafat and the rider is ex IDM rider Christian Kellner. All bikes have been equipped with the same tyres, Supercorsa SP.

First off the HP4 dynoed 200 hp, the S1000RR 199 and both panigales dynoed 186 hp (all at the crank).

Between the BMW's there was a huge difference. The S1000RR lapped in 1:32,00 min and the Hp4 lapped in 1:30,9. They say that the extra torque, and the better race abs/traction system is the biggest difference, but also the lighter wheels make a huge impact on the laptime.

Now to the interesting part, the 1199 vs the 1199S! They reported that the 1199 felt easier and more balanced to drive than the 1199S.

The 1199 did the lap in 1:31,5 min and the 1199S did it in 1:31,0 min. The 1199 was faster than the standard S1000RR but the 1199S was slower than the HP4.

The data stuff shows that the S1000RR was faster on the straight parts on the track (high speed corners etc). 257 km/h for the 1199 on the straight compared to 266 km/h for the HP4... huge difference. But in the twisty part of the track the 1199 is faster and makes up for the lost time.

I'd say the standard 1199 is probably most value for the money! I'm quite impressed of this test, and I guess the 1199's didn't even have the latest up map... which would bring all bikes even closer in terms of performance.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 02:46 AM   #2
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thanks for posting! That's a great road test!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojje View Post
Now I don't know how many of you guys have read this article but I'd guess not too many, since more than half of this forums members are american you probably haven't read the magazine MOTORRAD.

They've pitted the standard S1000RR against the HP4, and then the standard 1199 against the 1199S - and they also compared laps between both the BMW's and the 1199's!

The track is Calafat and the rider is ex IDM rider Christian Kellner. All bikes have been equipped with the same tyres, Supercorsa SP.

First off the HP4 dynoed 200 hp, the S1000RR 199 and both panigales dynoed 186 hp (all at the crank).

Between the BMW's there was a huge difference. The S1000RR lapped in 1:32,00 min and the Hp4 lapped in 1:30,9. They say that the extra torque, and the better race abs/traction system is the biggest difference, but also the lighter wheels make a huge impact on the laptime.

Now to the interesting part, the 1199 vs the 1199S! They reported that the 1199 felt easier and more balanced to drive than the 1199S.

The 1199 did the lap in 1:31,5 min and the 1199S did it in 1:31,0 min. The 1199 was faster than the standard S1000RR but the 1199S was slower than the HP4.

The data stuff shows that the S1000RR was faster on the straight parts on the track (high speed corners etc). 257 km/h for the 1199 on the straight compared to 266 km/h for the HP4... huge difference. But in the twisty part of the track the 1199 is faster and makes up for the lost time.

I'd say the standard 1199 is probably most value for the money! I'm quite impressed of this test, and I guess the 1199's didn't even have the latest up map... which would bring all bikes even closer in terms of performance.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 03:08 AM   #3
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Surprised the Pani lapped that fast

TBH, we know that Ducati don't usually get that close to the reigning class leader with their road going models.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 04:46 AM   #4
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Cool test. Thanks for sharing. How did they dyno them at the crank?
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Old January 5th, 2013, 04:58 AM   #5
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Interesting Read, 1199 Base The Way To Go

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Old January 5th, 2013, 07:12 AM   #6
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I knew all this a year ago, that is why I ordered the standard over the S
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Old January 5th, 2013, 07:40 AM   #7
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Interesting result. Was this article published after the November remap was released?

Through the corners its probably about the accessable midrange torque of the 1199, especially with the remap loaded. For straight line speed its more about HP vs. drag. I wonder if the extra width of the 1000RR/HP4 is making it more aero dynamic because less of the rider is sticking out into the airflow from behind the farings. Maybe the 1199 aero winglets aren't just marketing spin?

Why should there be much between standard and S, assuming they're both setup correctly? Other than the lighter wheels I don't see DES making a big difference - its more about convenience than performance; I don't need a tool kit, 30 minutes and assistance to adjust the suspension.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 08:59 AM   #8
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My question how many here will ride the bike at that level?

I figure if I can ride the Panigale to 50% of it's capabilities I'm doing ok.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 01:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojje View Post
Now I don't know how many of you guys have read this article but I'd guess not too many, since more than half of this forums members are american you probably haven't read the magazine MOTORRAD.

They've pitted the standard S1000RR against the HP4, and then the standard 1199 against the 1199S - and they also compared laps between both the BMW's and the 1199's!

The track is Calafat and the rider is ex IDM rider Christian Kellner. All bikes have been equipped with the same tyres, Supercorsa SP.

First off the HP4 dynoed 200 hp, the S1000RR 199 and both panigales dynoed 186 hp (all at the crank).

Between the BMW's there was a huge difference. The S1000RR lapped in 1:32,00 min and the Hp4 lapped in 1:30,9. They say that the extra torque, and the better race abs/traction system is the biggest difference, but also the lighter wheels make a huge impact on the laptime.

Now to the interesting part, the 1199 vs the 1199S! They reported that the 1199 felt easier and more balanced to drive than the 1199S.

The 1199 did the lap in 1:31,5 min and the 1199S did it in 1:31,0 min. The 1199 was faster than the standard S1000RR but the 1199S was slower than the HP4.

The data stuff shows that the S1000RR was faster on the straight parts on the track (high speed corners etc). 257 km/h for the 1199 on the straight compared to 266 km/h for the HP4... huge difference. But in the twisty part of the track the 1199 is faster and makes up for the lost time.

I'd say the standard 1199 is probably most value for the money! I'm quite impressed of this test, and I guess the 1199's didn't even have the latest up map... which would bring all bikes even closer in terms of performance.
thanks for posting!
can you send me a scan of the test? car4philip at gmail dot com
Tack så mycket!

Last edited by Phl; January 5th, 2013 at 01:13 PM.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 02:24 PM   #10
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I Ride: '13 Panigale R '12 1199S/ABS, '12 Multistrada S, '09 1098R Bayliss LE, 1998 custom rigid chopper
Great data! Can you provide a link or scan and post the pages for us?

Thanks!
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Old January 5th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by RSR racer View Post
Great data! Can you provide a link or scan and post the pages for us?

Thanks!
Just google Motorrad Magazine and it will appear. If you do not speak German, use Google translate to translate it for you. No need for scans and links.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 04:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcbc View Post
Just google Motorrad Magazine and it will appear. If you do not speak German, use Google translate to translate it for you. No need for scans and links.
Thanks, Marc! That did the trick. (cool mag as well)
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Old January 5th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #13
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Interesting. I bought the S model because I decided thats what I wanted. Magazine articles are interesting but I doubt they influence too many people about the final purchase.

Thanks for posting the results - I don't have to read the article now.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 05:46 PM   #14
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I took my Panigale S to the track yesterday. My track bike is / was a BMW S 1000RR, I am an ex A grade racer so I was looking forward to this.

The Pani S is completely standard except for some grippier pegs, and I had a fresh set of tyres on. Ran it only in Race Mode on the default settings. First impressions were that the Pani seems lighter and more flickable, around the tight and twisty sections it was near perfect, I could even hang with the 600 young guns. I saw no reason to play with any settings even the sue soon, as I was busy learning everything about it. That will come next time.

I tried all sorts of gear points on it, but found it best to leave it a higher gear than the BMW, torque it out of corners then do a quick short shift and drive through. Absolutely brilliant. I had a tussle with a gaggle of Jap race bikes and it was priceless to come out of second gear corners and wheelie past them to the next corner, simply fantastic. Certainly had some guys shaking their heads in the pits.

Where it lost out to the BMW was on any long straight, it just did not seem to have that that final insane top end kick the Beemer has. Having said that, I did hook onto a Kawasaki Zx10 race bike of a young mate of mine, and down the same straight I could actually reel him in fairly easily, so the Pani in standard trim is between these bikes. But as I said through the next twisty sections, the Pani was sheer bliss.

I could see easily how non Ducati riders, or guys not used to them would struggle with it. It is a more physical bike to ride hard than the super smooth and relatively easier Beemer. By the end of the day, though I found the more you threw it around like a 250 the more it responded. It is nothing like the 916/1098 bikes. In race mode it actually an angry beast, and again this could put some people off. I loved it.

I am hooked, and can't wait for the next day.

If I was still racing the BMW would be easier straight out to go fast, and as a club level racer is hard to beat.

But the Ducati, as an intoxicating track weapon is simply sensational, but you have to work at it. Very happy.

Cheers
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Old January 5th, 2013, 07:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DucSyd View Post
I took my Panigale S to the track yesterday. My track bike is / was a BMW S 1000RR, I am an ex A grade racer so I was looking forward to this.

The Pani S is completely standard except for some grippier pegs, and I had a fresh set of tyres on. Ran it only in Race Mode on the default settings. First impressions were that the Pani seems lighter and more flickable, around the tight and twisty sections it was near perfect, I could even hang with the 600 young guns. I saw no reason to play with any settings even the sue soon, as I was busy learning everything about it. That will come next time.

I tried all sorts of gear points on it, but found it best to leave it a higher gear than the BMW, torque it out of corners then do a quick short shift and drive through. Absolutely brilliant. I had a tussle with a gaggle of Jap race bikes and it was priceless to come out of second gear corners and wheelie past them to the next corner, simply fantastic. Certainly had some guys shaking their heads in the pits.

Where it lost out to the BMW was on any long straight, it just did not seem to have that that final insane top end kick the Beemer has. Having said that, I did hook onto a Kawasaki Zx10 race bike of a young mate of mine, and down the same straight I could actually reel him in fairly easily, so the Pani in standard trim is between these bikes. But as I said through the next twisty sections, the Pani was sheer bliss.
Cheers
That said, do you think the extra 500 rpms on the R would be the edge needed to closer match the Beemer on the straights?
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Old January 5th, 2013, 08:47 PM   #16
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Hmmm interesting, I thought about that, but mine is still running road gearing so I could only pull fifth while redlining down the straight. I doubt the extra 500 revs would have done much. For most of the track I found it best to shift while well into the torque around 10 to 11 thou, with most lights flashing. It didn't really make much difference if I maxed it out to the limiter, so for normal ride day and club racers I doubt it will make much difference. I think Ducati will have to find something special to compete with the Bemmer and other 1000 4 WSBK bikes, but I am sure they have that figured. The R is just homolgation for all the bits needed.

I was talking about this in the pits with some of our top racers, one is on a BMW which is putting out about 200hp at the rear wheel still with only the BMW kit you can buy. It is simply amazing they can achieve what they do.

Talking with the young guns, they are simply put off by the entry price of the Ducati and the SSTK kit, if it wasn't for the price you may get some more takers. As it is I doubt we will see any Ducati's running up the front of the Australian domestic series, as I am sure Ducati hoped.

Having said that, I love the Ducati over the BMW, maybe I am just weird? But the BMW is a freak.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 09:09 PM   #17
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Having said that, I love the Ducati over the BMW, maybe I am just weird? But the BMW is a freak.
Lol

But seriously, it's actually quite frightening. Imagine if BMW had made it a stunner and ditched the Quazimodo look - we'd ALL be riding and watching S1KRR's EVERYWHERE

Last edited by Xbox; January 5th, 2013 at 09:12 PM.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 09:23 PM   #18
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Lol

But seriously, it's actually quite frightening. Imagine if BMW had made it a stunner and ditched the Quazimodo look - we'd ALL be riding and watching S1KRR's EVERYWHERE
I don't know Xbox, I was a died in the wool Porsche/Beemer guy, but the Pani stole my heart! Im not selling my 911 or Beemers, but for sport bikes, this is it for me!
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Old January 5th, 2013, 09:29 PM   #19
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I don't know Xbox, I was a died in the wool Porsche/Beemer guy, but the Pani stole my heart! Im not selling my 911 or Beemers, but for sport bikes, this is it for me!
Yah, but what if BMW had come up with a design capable of stealing hearts

Guess the only remaining issue would be the IL4 whine
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Old January 6th, 2013, 12:10 AM   #20
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BMW really set out to trump the Japs, and they well and truly did that. That's why it was priced the way it was, they wanted to sell a lot of them

It's all about efficiency, emotion does not come into it. Ducati is exactly the opposite, all about emotion. And the Panigale does that in spades as only the Italians can. Everywhere you look at the design you could say BMW would never have done that. ( or the Japs either)

I drive a German car ( Audi) and probably always will, but sports bikes are my passion, and thanks that manufactures like Ducati exist, never a dull moment!

And you are right, the I4 drone of the BMW drove me nuts, the Ducati 1199 is soul stirring, I will never get tired of that. A big booming V twin, yes please.
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