Handling-big issues! - Page 7

Rich22 · July 29th, 2012, 01:05 AM

Will do

they are improving slowly but surely. Alladin just need to learn the twisty uk tracks, not what hes used to.

ChamMTB · July 29th, 2012, 03:44 PM

Rich,

Quick question I forgot to ask. Are you using the racing seat (or comfort seat) at all on yours? It also lifts you up about another 20mm from the stock seat, hardly improving the rear ride height.

Back in the UK now so will have a look at mine over the next few days. If it stops bloody raining am off to Donington tomorrow - first dry track day this year? Hope so, two cancellations so far......

Rich22 · July 29th, 2012, 11:30 PM

Have fun at Donnington, I can't make this 1

Standard seat on mine.

Delta One · August 2nd, 2012, 03:04 AM

Hey Rich22 came across this article today.

Guintoli Says Ducati Panigale Handling is Magnifique | Ducati News Today

I know you have been working on their bikes so ...... a big compliment to you also! Well done.

ChamMTB · August 2nd, 2012, 03:11 PM

Rich,

Getting towards a stable setup on mine now I think. Getting new springs next week to tame the rear end, so will need to adjust further once they are on to get the same ride height, but I have a setup now that seems to work well on the roads at least. Need to take a fast run somewhere (honest officer!) to check the high speed stability - but calmer handling all round.

Happy to compare notes if you want to send me a PM. I have the bike down so low now compared to stock setup, but the handling is night and day improved.

Still needs oil (to stop diving) and rear spring softer but with more pre-load - but am going to aim for the same "dynamic" height front and rear with the new springs as I think this works.

Finicky bike if this is what it took. You can tell me if I am close to your setup.

BTW - I have the race seat back on mine now which I found necessary to switch back to once I put the performance rearsets on, as otherwise you would need to be a contortionist to get your knees in there. But I have cut down the height of the seat to be higher than stock and lower than it was initially as the race seat. Given the back of the bike is now so low (to get the handling right), this seems to work as you are lifted about 15mm by the seat, in compensation for the reduction in rear ride height of the bike.

It's at least a base setting to work from. Prior to this it has continued to be unstable. Once I am happy I have a base setup, I will post where I am.

Rich22 · August 2nd, 2012, 10:44 PM

It all seems to be getting sorted but still a way to go

Pm sent

veck · December 11th, 2012, 09:52 AM

After riding mine (1199s) at the track several times I find myself agreeing with the notion that the forks lack oil.

The stock oil level is much lower than what Ohlins recomends so I added 10ml to each fork before my last track day.

The result was that I did not end up bottoming out the forks under hard braking. I used all the travel but no hit at the end of the stroke. Its let me keep the compression at a reasonable level but still have good control in the heavy braking areas.

I also shortened up the rear shock and set the sag at 29mm. I'm getting perfect rear tire wear and good drive off the corners. I just need to get the front sorted out, its still a bit touchy mid corner.

erdmann · December 11th, 2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich22

I will pm you the settings if you like to try them. F is just a no go as soon as you up the pace.

can you pm me your set up

ScrapperX · December 12th, 2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

I, for one, am in agreement with Rich. My S is not responding to any setting. By that I mean being soft enough to ride hard without getting totally out of shape at times.

I too would be going down the same route as Rich (MCT) as I feel in its current spec there is insufficient adjustment for how I want to ride.

Look forward to hearing how Rich gets on.

Keep us posted Rich.

.

+1
This is why I bought the base model and added the better aftermarket Ohlins . I originally wanted the S but the dealer couldn't really adjust the settings to my style of riding during the demo run through the canyons. He told me that the OEM DES Ohlins had insufficient adjustment they experienced the same issue on their 1199 race bike. The suspension setup guy recommended to do what they did to their race bike. Buy the base and add the Ohlins TTX36 Mark 2 DU930 and OHLINS 30mm NIX FGRT 203 Front Forks. I finally did it and it made a world of difference in handling. Wider range in adjustment, better feeling and feedback on the the street and track. Able to go through the canyons and tracks at insane speeds with the bike feeling really planted. Never looked backed. Recommend it for serious riders only as the Ohlins DES or Marzocchi/Sachs combo is good enough for the average riders out there.

veck · December 12th, 2012, 05:20 PM

I dont know why the dealer would have told you that the range of adjustment was wider on the non DES cartridge kit. You really dont need a huge range of 'clicks' when the bike is valved/spring correctly.

For me I had to get the geometry correct before working with the compression/rebound settings. Rear shock was too long, with too much spring and preload. Front was too much preload and oil level too low.

The ohlins sheets for the stock DES vs the upgrade shows that the oil level is low in the stock forks (220mm stock vs 200-160mm) and the compression valve stack is on the soft side C3 vs C4 to C6 depending on which combination you go with.

I think if you get the bike valved and sprung for your weight and riding style it should make no difference if you are using the DES versus manual clickers.

ScrapperX · December 12th, 2012, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veck

I dont know why the dealer would have told you that the range of adjustment was wider on the non DES cartridge kit. You really dont need a huge range of 'clicks' when the bike is valved/spring correctly.

For me I had to get the geometry correct before working with the compression/rebound settings. Rear shock was too long, with too much spring and preload. Front was too much preload and oil level too low.

The ohlins sheets for the stock DES vs the upgrade shows that the oil level is low in the stock forks (220mm stock vs 200-160mm) and the compression valve stack is on the soft side C3 vs C4 to C6 depending on which combination you go with.

I think if you get the bike valved and sprung for your weight and riding style it should make no difference if you are using the DES versus manual clickers.

I agree with what you are saying about if you get the bike valved and sprung for your weight and most important getting the GEO right would help tremendously but there is a major difference between the OEM DES Ohlins TTX and the New Ohlins TTX MK II aftermarket internals besides electronic and manual clicks. Trust me I wanted the electronic adjustment but I didn't want to pay a premium for the S only to dump more money into the shocks to get it right, its kind of an oxymoron to me by doing so. For me buying the base and upgrading the shocks/forks that fit me from the start and upgrading the wheels was a better financial decision for me.

TTX36 MkII - Öhlins

veck · December 13th, 2012, 04:21 AM

Yes there's a difference between the different generations of TTX shocks. Can the average rider tell the difference between them? From what I've been told by Ohlins vendors, the benifits are for folks that are racing and pushing the shock very hard.

I think the biggest difference you would feel is if the vendor you purchased the TTX from put the correct valving and spring on it in the first place. I know that all of the TTX shocks I have purchased for my race bikes always came with custom valving and springs, it was not an off the shelf purchase.

WAfatboy · January 12th, 2013, 02:41 PM

Any updates on this thread with regards to high speed stability?

I've worked out most of the bugs to get mine handling sweetly but I have to say that north of 150mph the front still feels a little light, although I'm talking about long straight roads they are a little bumpy. I suspect that that this is just the compromise of a light bike on a rough road and there's not a lot to be done.

Trauma · January 12th, 2013, 03:50 PM

My biggest problem at the high speeds, is my perferated Ducati jacket "inflating", and my helmet lifting.

prasen · January 12th, 2013, 06:04 PM

Maybe changing the swingarm angle would help a bit?

veck · January 13th, 2013, 10:49 AM

After dealing with the excess rear ride hight and getting the front set correctly I'm not noticing anthing high speed up to just shy of 170. My next purchase is going to be a better windscreen because the stock one is just too small for me. I cant get my big head down behind it!

WAfatboy · January 13th, 2013, 01:39 PM

It may well be the quality of the roads here as mines been professionally set up for sag front and rear and a new rear spring. After all even on a racetrack you are rarely travelling at these speeds for long, whereas in the country is a whole different ball game.

Thanks for the input anyway.

December 11th, 2012, 09:52 AM	#127
veck Senior Member Joined: Aug 2012 From: georgia Posts: 108 Thanks: 16 I Ride: 1199S, F1098, R6, R1	After riding mine (1199s) at the track several times I find myself agreeing with the notion that the forks lack oil. The stock oil level is much lower than what Ohlins recomends so I added 10ml to each fork before my last track day. The result was that I did not end up bottoming out the forks under hard braking. I used all the travel but no hit at the end of the stroke. Its let me keep the compression at a reasonable level but still have good control in the heavy braking areas. I also shortened up the rear shock and set the sag at 29mm. I'm getting perfect rear tire wear and good drive off the corners. I just need to get the front sorted out, its still a bit touchy mid corner. Thanks from superfly999

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July 29th, 2012, 01:05 AM	#121
Rich22 Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Uk Posts: 572 Thanks: 133	Will do they are improving slowly but surely. Alladin just need to learn the twisty uk tracks, not what hes used to.

July 29th, 2012, 03:44 PM	#122
ChamMTB Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: London Posts: 38 Thanks: 2	Rich, Quick question I forgot to ask. Are you using the racing seat (or comfort seat) at all on yours? It also lifts you up about another 20mm from the stock seat, hardly improving the rear ride height. Back in the UK now so will have a look at mine over the next few days. If it stops bloody raining am off to Donington tomorrow - first dry track day this year? Hope so, two cancellations so far......

July 29th, 2012, 11:30 PM	#123
Rich22 Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Uk Posts: 572 Thanks: 133	Have fun at Donnington, I can't make this 1 Standard seat on mine.

August 2nd, 2012, 03:04 AM	#124
Delta One Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Dubai UAE Posts: 462 Thanks: 11 I Ride: 1199 Panigale S Tricolore and an 848	Hey Rich22 came across this article today. Guintoli Says Ducati Panigale Handling is Magnifique \| Ducati News Today I know you have been working on their bikes so ...... a big compliment to you also! Well done.

August 2nd, 2012, 03:11 PM	#125
ChamMTB Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: London Posts: 38 Thanks: 2	Rich, Getting towards a stable setup on mine now I think. Getting new springs next week to tame the rear end, so will need to adjust further once they are on to get the same ride height, but I have a setup now that seems to work well on the roads at least. Need to take a fast run somewhere (honest officer!) to check the high speed stability - but calmer handling all round. Happy to compare notes if you want to send me a PM. I have the bike down so low now compared to stock setup, but the handling is night and day improved. Still needs oil (to stop diving) and rear spring softer but with more pre-load - but am going to aim for the same "dynamic" height front and rear with the new springs as I think this works. Finicky bike if this is what it took. You can tell me if I am close to your setup. BTW - I have the race seat back on mine now which I found necessary to switch back to once I put the performance rearsets on, as otherwise you would need to be a contortionist to get your knees in there. But I have cut down the height of the seat to be higher than stock and lower than it was initially as the race seat. Given the back of the bike is now so low (to get the handling right), this seems to work as you are lifted about 15mm by the seat, in compensation for the reduction in rear ride height of the bike. It's at least a base setting to work from. Prior to this it has continued to be unstable. Once I am happy I have a base setup, I will post where I am.

August 2nd, 2012, 10:44 PM	#126
Rich22 Senior Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Uk Posts: 572 Thanks: 133	It all seems to be getting sorted but still a way to go Pm sent

December 12th, 2012, 05:20 PM	#130
veck Senior Member Joined: Aug 2012 From: georgia Posts: 108 Thanks: 16 I Ride: 1199S, F1098, R6, R1	I dont know why the dealer would have told you that the range of adjustment was wider on the non DES cartridge kit. You really dont need a huge range of 'clicks' when the bike is valved/spring correctly. For me I had to get the geometry correct before working with the compression/rebound settings. Rear shock was too long, with too much spring and preload. Front was too much preload and oil level too low. The ohlins sheets for the stock DES vs the upgrade shows that the oil level is low in the stock forks (220mm stock vs 200-160mm) and the compression valve stack is on the soft side C3 vs C4 to C6 depending on which combination you go with. I think if you get the bike valved and sprung for your weight and riding style it should make no difference if you are using the DES versus manual clickers.

December 13th, 2012, 04:21 AM	#132
veck Senior Member Joined: Aug 2012 From: georgia Posts: 108 Thanks: 16 I Ride: 1199S, F1098, R6, R1	Yes there's a difference between the different generations of TTX shocks. Can the average rider tell the difference between them? From what I've been told by Ohlins vendors, the benifits are for folks that are racing and pushing the shock very hard. I think the biggest difference you would feel is if the vendor you purchased the TTX from put the correct valving and spring on it in the first place. I know that all of the TTX shocks I have purchased for my race bikes always came with custom valving and springs, it was not an off the shelf purchase.

January 12th, 2013, 02:41 PM	#133
WAfatboy Senior Member Joined: Apr 2012 From: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 889 Thanks: 293 I Ride: Ducati 1199s	Any updates on this thread with regards to high speed stability? I've worked out most of the bugs to get mine handling sweetly but I have to say that north of 150mph the front still feels a little light, although I'm talking about long straight roads they are a little bumpy. I suspect that that this is just the compromise of a light bike on a rough road and there's not a lot to be done.

January 12th, 2013, 03:50 PM	#134
Trauma Senior Member Joined: Jun 2012 From: St. Louis Posts: 3,179 Thanks: 489 I Ride: 1199 ABS, K1300S, ZX7R	My biggest problem at the high speeds, is my perferated Ducati jacket "inflating", and my helmet lifting.

January 12th, 2013, 06:04 PM	#135
prasen Senior Member Joined: Oct 2012 From: N/A Posts: 125 Thanks: 16	Maybe changing the swingarm angle would help a bit?

January 13th, 2013, 10:49 AM	#136
veck Senior Member Joined: Aug 2012 From: georgia Posts: 108 Thanks: 16 I Ride: 1199S, F1098, R6, R1	After dealing with the excess rear ride hight and getting the front set correctly I'm not noticing anthing high speed up to just shy of 170. My next purchase is going to be a better windscreen because the stock one is just too small for me. I cant get my big head down behind it!

January 13th, 2013, 01:39 PM	#137
WAfatboy Senior Member Joined: Apr 2012 From: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 889 Thanks: 293 I Ride: Ducati 1199s	It may well be the quality of the roads here as mines been professionally set up for sag front and rear and a new rear spring. After all even on a racetrack you are rarely travelling at these speeds for long, whereas in the country is a whole different ball game. Thanks for the input anyway.