Lithium battery and the Pani answer(?) from ducati

zvez · June 28th, 2012, 10:14 AM

HI All,
As has been discussed it's been stated in threads here that a Shorai (lithium battery) can't be used in the panigale and that it could potentially void the warranty.

I'm posting the answer (of sorts) from Ducati. It really doesn't say anything, and certainly makes no mention of voiding the warranty, which would be a tough thing to do in the US at any rate.

So I guess it's a use at your own risk.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

With reference to your request, we inform you that every single part of the bike is developed together with the whole technical project of the bike itself.
Therefore Ducati advises against installing types of batteries different from the one coming with the bike.

We remind you that our authorised service centres are at your complete disposal for any further explanation or suggestion.
Moreover, Ducati strongly recommend you always follow the indications given in the Owner's Manual for your own security and to preserve the performance of your bike.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Gunny Fitz · June 28th, 2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zvez

HI All,
As has been discussed it's been stated in threads here that a Shorai (lithium battery) can't be used in the panigale and that it could potentially void the warranty.

I'm posting the answer (of sorts) from Ducati. It really doesn't say anything, and certainly makes no mention of voiding the warranty, which would be a tough thing to do in the US at any rate.

So I guess it's a use at your own risk.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

With reference to your request, we inform you that every single part of the bike is developed together with the whole technical project of the bike itself.
Therefore Ducati advises against installing types of batteries different from the one coming with the bike.

We remind you that our authorised service centres are at your complete disposal for any further explanation or suggestion.
Moreover, Ducati strongly recommend you always follow the indications given in the Owner's Manual for your own security and to preserve the performance of your bike.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What a total legal answer there man! And they always fall back on the stupid manual when under the gun. Is that how they spell over there too, dumb question since it wouldnt even be in English! duh.
Good on you for asking and sharing bro !

Xbox · June 28th, 2012, 12:36 PM

TBH, when those guys posted that vid of the bike starting with a Shorai, I kinda wondered about timing for the entire start up and decompression process, just because Ducati did something a little different here

husker1 · June 28th, 2012, 01:11 PM

That reply says absolutely nothing that is useful.

Thanks for sharing this, Chris.

tstephenson · June 28th, 2012, 01:14 PM

I use a Deltran Battery tender with a Shorai - I'll keep you posted if anything blows up. I also have my stock battery I will throw back in if it does

zvez · June 28th, 2012, 01:17 PM

With the shorai you don't really need a battery tender, these things discharge at such a miniscule rate. I took the tender lead off my streetighter when I bought it last Oct. I had it sit for as much as a couple weeks and checked the voltage and voltage loss was minimal.

I know old habits die hard and I thought long and hard about it as EVERY singel duc I've owned has always lived on a tender after having my regulator go south on my 97 748. IN the days before I had a trailer and had to push it a mile and a half home!(FYI, the electrical systems are far better than back in 97!)

Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstephenson

I use a Deltran Battery tender with a Shorai - I'll keep you posted if anything blows up. I also have my stock battery I will throw back in if it does

zvez · June 28th, 2012, 01:19 PM

Kind of what I expected as if they replied, sure go ahead and use the lithium battery and somewhere around the world someone did and it blew up or such they'd take some heat.

As with my streetfighter, I waited til the oem battery died then put a shorai in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by husker1

That reply says absolutely nothing that is useful.

Thanks for sharing this, Chris.

tstephenson · June 28th, 2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zvez

With the shorai you don't really need a battery tender, these things discharge at such a miniscule rate. I took the tender lead off my streetighter when I bought it last Oct. I had it sit for as much as a couple weeks and checked the voltage and voltage loss was minimal.

I know old habits die hard and I thought long and hard about it as EVERY singel duc I've owned has always lived on a tender after having my regulator go south on my 97 748. IN the days before I had a trailer and had to push it a mile and a half home!(FYI, the electrical systems are far better than back in 97!)

Chris

I know old habits die hard - I should just leave it off just - I have 4 bikes on a quad charger and it jsut habit when I pull in to plug it in. I should get Shorais for them all and just forget the charger.

efna · June 28th, 2012, 02:09 PM

I think that the answer is quite clear. Just translate it into Latin. It says:

"Caveat Emptor"

Rhino · July 10th, 2012, 10:52 PM

Asked my dealer about this.

They said the battery obviously won't be covered by Ducati warranty, but it won't void the warranty on the bike.

Mine will be going on / in.

littlejohn · July 10th, 2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhino

Asked my dealer about this.

They said the battery obviously won't be covered by Ducati warranty, but it won't void the warranty on the bike.

Mine will be going on / in.

Your dealer is wise in the ways on warranty.

Rhino · July 10th, 2012, 11:34 PM

Thanks Yoda

texasduc · September 30th, 2012, 10:10 AM

Motorcyclist magazine has good article (august 2012) comparing many LI batteries against the the traditional lead acid type

zvez · September 30th, 2012, 05:11 PM

really happy with my shorai that's been in my streetfighter for a year now and never on a battery tender anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasduc

Motorcyclist magazine has good article (august 2012) comparing many LI batteries against the the traditional lead acid type

LAtriduc · October 3rd, 2012, 09:46 PM

My bike would not start on two different occasions. On the first one, I bump started it and got home (from out in nowhere); whew! On the second occasion I started it up to from my garage to go for a ride and there was nothing.

My meter showed that it had 4 volts. It's charged now and on a trickle charge to keep it up.

I called the Ducati dealership and they told me about the DDA problem (not keeping it in, which I wasn't) and the smaller battery in the Pani which means less powerful. When I asked if the battery was under warranty they told me "well it depends..." Of course they told me that I should bring it in so they could check out the whole system.

Does anyone know if they warranty the battery? I'm pretty sure thats the problem. If it is not under warranty I'll just buy a Shorai on my own and be done w/it.

Trauma · October 4th, 2012, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhino

Asked my dealer about this.

They said the battery obviously won't be covered by Ducati warranty, but it won't void the warranty on the bike.

Mine will be going on / in.

Curious why people are replacing the battery. I have had no problems. Is it just a weight thing? If so, how much?

vo2 · October 4th, 2012, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trauma

Curious why people are replacing the battery. I have had no problems. Is it just a weight thing? If so, how much?

For me? Weight. 4.4 lb

LAtriduc · October 4th, 2012, 09:41 AM

Trauma,
As it was described to me by the Service Mgr at my Ducati dealership, these batteries are smaller than batteries previously installed on ducs. This was to save weight on the Pani. The tradeoff was battery power/life of battery. The margin of error for these batteries could be a fraction of a volt between starting your bike and not enough power to turn it over. The older batteries did not have this problem. That is also why these batteries need a tender and the older ones did not. The Shorai battery seems to have more cranking amps and is a completely different battery than the duc battery. Stats here:

Shorai Lithium Iron LiFePO4 Battery LFX18A1-BS12 18 Amp Hour, 270 Cold Cranking Amps

I think the stock battery is like 120 cold cranking amps. Not sure about the weight difference between the two batteries and as one person wrote on this thread, I'll just ride before lunch...LOL!

That being said, I'm NOT a battery expert. This is what has been told to me.
For those of you not needing a battery, it could be that your bike does not sit as long as some of the rest of us or you keep it on a tender. From what was told to me, you should be okay. Mine has failed me twice, so it's adios to this thing. I'm switching out for the uber battery so I won't have this worry.

southeastduc · October 4th, 2012, 10:54 AM

LATriduc,

I agree, if you have had multiple probs then it's prolly worth it. Otherwise, personally I'm sticking to my stocker until it dies. Then I'll see price difference. It's a lot cheaper for me to drop 4lbs myself and not such a bad idea..... :-)

Trauma · October 4th, 2012, 03:05 PM

I started keeping mine on a tender, then found after 2-3 days, and then only a short ride, it has always turned over fine. And yes, 4 lbs compared to 371 isn't really a blink. Plus, I seem to remeber charging a lithium, or trickle charging it, is not as simple as a standard battery.

I'll probably wait till it dies too.

June 28th, 2012, 10:14 AM	#1
zvez Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: ga Posts: 1,724 Thanks: 148	Lithium battery and the Pani answer(?) from ducati HI All, As has been discussed it's been stated in threads here that a Shorai (lithium battery) can't be used in the panigale and that it could potentially void the warranty. I'm posting the answer (of sorts) from Ducati. It really doesn't say anything, and certainly makes no mention of voiding the warranty, which would be a tough thing to do in the US at any rate. So I guess it's a use at your own risk. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With reference to your request, we inform you that every single part of the bike is developed together with the whole technical project of the bike itself. Therefore Ducati advises against installing types of batteries different from the one coming with the bike. We remind you that our authorised service centres are at your complete disposal for any further explanation or suggestion. Moreover, Ducati strongly recommend you always follow the indications given in the Owner's Manual for your own security and to preserve the performance of your bike. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

October 3rd, 2012, 09:46 PM	#15
LAtriduc Junior Member Joined: Oct 2012 From: Los Angeles Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 I Ride: 1199 Tricolore	panigale stock battery My bike would not start on two different occasions. On the first one, I bump started it and got home (from out in nowhere); whew! On the second occasion I started it up to from my garage to go for a ride and there was nothing. My meter showed that it had 4 volts. It's charged now and on a trickle charge to keep it up. I called the Ducati dealership and they told me about the DDA problem (not keeping it in, which I wasn't) and the smaller battery in the Pani which means less powerful. When I asked if the battery was under warranty they told me "well it depends..." Of course they told me that I should bring it in so they could check out the whole system. Does anyone know if they warranty the battery? I'm pretty sure thats the problem. If it is not under warranty I'll just buy a Shorai on my own and be done w/it.

October 4th, 2012, 09:41 AM	#18
LAtriduc Junior Member Joined: Oct 2012 From: Los Angeles Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 I Ride: 1199 Tricolore	Battery replacement Trauma, As it was described to me by the Service Mgr at my Ducati dealership, these batteries are smaller than batteries previously installed on ducs. This was to save weight on the Pani. The tradeoff was battery power/life of battery. The margin of error for these batteries could be a fraction of a volt between starting your bike and not enough power to turn it over. The older batteries did not have this problem. That is also why these batteries need a tender and the older ones did not. The Shorai battery seems to have more cranking amps and is a completely different battery than the duc battery. Stats here: Shorai Lithium Iron LiFePO4 Battery LFX18A1-BS12 18 Amp Hour, 270 Cold Cranking Amps I think the stock battery is like 120 cold cranking amps. Not sure about the weight difference between the two batteries and as one person wrote on this thread, I'll just ride before lunch...LOL! That being said, I'm NOT a battery expert. This is what has been told to me. For those of you not needing a battery, it could be that your bike does not sit as long as some of the rest of us or you keep it on a tender. From what was told to me, you should be okay. Mine has failed me twice, so it's adios to this thing. I'm switching out for the uber battery so I won't have this worry.

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June 28th, 2012, 12:36 PM	#3
Xbox Senior Member Joined: Jan 2012 From: The Med Posts: 1,608 Thanks: 75 I Ride: 1199 Tric	TBH, when those guys posted that vid of the bike starting with a Shorai, I kinda wondered about timing for the entire start up and decompression process, just because Ducati did something a little different here

June 28th, 2012, 01:11 PM	#4
husker1 Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: England Posts: 223 Thanks: 0 I Ride: 1199 Base + ABS, Ducati GT-1000	That reply says absolutely nothing that is useful. Thanks for sharing this, Chris.

June 28th, 2012, 01:14 PM	#5
tstephenson Senior Member Joined: Dec 2011 From: Lone Tree CO Posts: 468 Thanks: 3 I Ride: 2012 1199 Panigale Tri	I use a Deltran Battery tender with a Shorai - I'll keep you posted if anything blows up. I also have my stock battery I will throw back in if it does

June 28th, 2012, 02:09 PM	#9
efna Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: Peoria, AZ Posts: 335 Thanks: 15 I Ride: GSXR750 K7, 1199 Panigale	I think that the answer is quite clear. Just translate it into Latin. It says: "Caveat Emptor"

July 10th, 2012, 10:52 PM	#10
Rhino Senior Member Joined: Feb 2012 From: perth.wa.au Posts: 312 Thanks: 0	Asked my dealer about this. They said the battery obviously won't be covered by Ducati warranty, but it won't void the warranty on the bike. Mine will be going on / in.

July 10th, 2012, 11:34 PM	#12
Rhino Senior Member Joined: Feb 2012 From: perth.wa.au Posts: 312 Thanks: 0	Thanks Yoda

September 30th, 2012, 10:10 AM	#13
texasduc Junior Member Joined: Sep 2012 From: texas Posts: 4 Thanks: 0	Motorcyclist magazine has good article (august 2012) comparing many LI batteries against the the traditional lead acid type

October 4th, 2012, 10:54 AM	#19
southeastduc Senior Member Joined: Jun 2012 From: Florida Posts: 312 Thanks: 24 I Ride: 2012 1199 ABS, 2009 YZ450F	LATriduc, I agree, if you have had multiple probs then it's prolly worth it. Otherwise, personally I'm sticking to my stocker until it dies. Then I'll see price difference. It's a lot cheaper for me to drop 4lbs myself and not such a bad idea..... :-)

October 4th, 2012, 03:05 PM	#20
Trauma Senior Member Joined: Jun 2012 From: St. Louis Posts: 3,182 Thanks: 489 I Ride: 1199 ABS, K1300S, ZX7R	I started keeping mine on a tender, then found after 2-3 days, and then only a short ride, it has always turned over fine. And yes, 4 lbs compared to 371 isn't really a blink. Plus, I seem to remeber charging a lithium, or trickle charging it, is not as simple as a standard battery. I'll probably wait till it dies too.