Copiya

For those that use warmer's at the track, which ones are best suited to the OEM tyres? Elastic sides or no elastic? Digital or non digital? Reliability?

After some recommendations from fellow panigale owners!

Perhaps you dont think warmers are even needed? I'd love to hear your arguments either way!

Gunny Fitz

Warmers are a MUST for track use man. If you are running stock wheels any type is fine, it gets tricky when you use carbon though. Chicken Hawk are my fave with adjustable temps and indicator lights. They have a huge range out. Of course there are others which are good to go as well. I see where you are located. If you need a good US connection to get a great set PM me when you are ready and I will get you hooked up with a deal and a connection for life (on any gear that is!)

Motorcycle Tires | SportbikeTrackGear.com

jarelj

The OEM tires don't need warmers for proper performance or tire life, nor do any street compound tires. You can certainly use warmers with no ill effects but you won't be getting much of a benefit. That said, I like the Woodcraft dual-temp warmers, I think they're the best on the market for the price.

TricoloreSF

+1 on Chicken Hawk. I've use the digital ones with temp readout, they fit over 200 tires no prob. Also check out Bickle, well made and are repairable. I know guys that have had one set for thousands of cycles and last for years.

anthem

I disagree that tire warmers are a "MUST" for track use. It really depends on what the track (outside) temperature is, what the rider skill is and what type of tire you're talking about. If you aren't at least in fast intermediate or the faster group - you probably don't need tire warmers - especially on any day over 80F(26C). On a cooler day, you could argue that there is a benefit to getting the tires up to riding temperature or to take it easy the first lap or so. . The real question is this - do you know how hot your tire temps are when you come off the track ? If you can measure your temps right off the track - you'll know how hot they are and that will answer a lot of questions of whether you need tire warmers to take it up to 160-180 when you start.

You can use them on any tire to get up to temp faster (including OEM), but the only advantage you get is that you can get a bit more aggressive on them right off the bat.

That being said - IMO, the best tire warmers in the world are made by Capit or KLS. Both are excellent, both have nomex versions for Duc's (which you want since the exhausts on Ducs' are very close to tires), and both make digital ones if you want that, and both aren't cheap.. In the US - they are not as commonly available as the top US brand is Chicken Hawk, which are good as well. Either way - I would suggest a couple things, try and get a Nomex version because of the proximity of the exhaust and make sure you keep into consideration the speed sensor wire coming down from /under/ the fender if you put tire warmers on. Some people have relocated that wire as that wire is in the way for tire warmers and can easily get caught when putting on or removing tire warmers (no idea why Ducati put the wire under the fender).

Gunny Fitz

Whatever.

mark419ny

tire warmers aren't needed? i guess you know better then every pit crew in every racing division in the US and in Europe. I guess Rossi's team and Stoners team just didn't do as much research as you did to come to their conclusions. Not needed at all lol what a tool.

Marcbc

There is a slight difference here. Firstly you are talking about race teams and secondly in those cases the tyre warmers are taken off at the last minute. This is about track days.

On a typical UK / non-open pitlane track day one can sit for many minutes after removing the tyrewarmers with an external temp that will cool the tyres down pretty quickly in that wait time. Other than getting a possible advantage in the first lap or so, I also see no real benefit. I am a fast / intermediate group rider and have never used tyre warmers and have never had a problem either.

There is also a possible benefit in terms of heat cycles which are damaging to a tyres longevity, but again this is perhaps negated if one is going to sit in the pit lane for 10 minutes or so waiting for one's group to be ler out.

Anthem's post makes a lot of sense. Read it carefully.

anthem

So is Marc419NY short for Mark Marquez ? Because I would guess the OP isn't a MotoGP or AMA class racer if he's asking about tire warmers. . . And not sure if you read the OP - he's asking about a "track day" not a "race day". Track day is enthusiasts like us going to a track. Race day are races (amateur or professional) - or are you not familiar with the difference. Perhaps you think every "track day" is an AMA race because you've only been to the track one time to see a race ??? that ignorance might explain the lack of knowledge. . .

Chances are if you're asking about tire warmers and have no experience or knowledge with them - you don't need them. Read my post - it depends on rider skill, air/track temp and tire type. The pro guys (and other advanced riders) need it because they want their tire performance to be at max right off the bat (and are starting with hot tires).

I think you mentioned you're going to a track day at NJMP - well go work with Brett for awhile. I'm fairly certain Brett is going to tell you the same thing - if you aren't in fast intermed or advanced - you won't need tire warmers. Especially you're first day out on a track. If its a cold day out on the track - they might help to get it to working temp faster (especially DOT track tires) but you can do that just as easily with a lap or two around the track. Go to your first track day and you'll see. The majority of people there are not running tire warmers. Only the blue/black/race group and /maybe/ some intermediates. If you're got SLICKS or SuperCorsa SC's and are fast/aggressive/experienced enough then you at least might know what you're doing.

Now, it seems like you just want to back up your pink handlebar cheerleading buddy there who hooked you up - which is fine (and so high school). But if you're calling me a "tool" for pointing out something really obvious that you /obviously/ have zero clue about - do some research first. You're going to a track day soon, right ? do YOU have tire warmers and are ready to use them ? Because you're buddy who's never tracked the 1199 (maybe he has, who knows) says you "MUST" have tire warmers ? ok - probably shouldn't have thrown those last two pot shots, but c'mon guys - "whatever" and being called a "tool" ? A "tool" ? The only person who has no clue what he's talking about is the cheerleading tool. . . Stop the cheerleading and pull up your big boy panties. . . .

Oh yeah - Rossi and Stoner both use Capit tire warmers. I know Rossi still does, don't know if Stoner changed but I doubt it. You got anything else ?

DRSapp

Agree with most that for road tires, warmers are not required, but are recommended. With warmers, you keep your core tire temps up. Even waiting in pit lane for a few minutes, they will retain heat. With warmers, you can go all out within a few corners. Try this without and you will suffer cold tearing and likely to lob it down the track.

If you are running road tires and don't want to deal with warmers, just spend the first lap or two increasing you pace to let the core of the tires get up to temp.

However, if you want to "hit the track running" I recommend Chicken Hawks pole position warmers - They fit nicely over the 200 rear and are top spec kit with a toggle switch for selecting the only three temps you really ever need.

b1six

Are we fucking serious? Arguing over tire warmers? Cmon guys. I used chickenhawks back in the day. I preferred them. But to each their own.

anthem

Nah - believe it or not, the argument isn't over what /brand/ of tire warmers (you would figure it would be). . . Apparently a couple of people didn't like the fact that I said not everybody /must/ use tire warmers on a track day. Most track days I have been to I would say the majority (or possibly 2/3) of track day riders don't use and don't need tire warmers. So they got into a tizzy over it and then somebody else called me a tool and comparing a track day to MotoGP or something (really ?).

In terms of tire warmers - CHR tire warmers are good and readily accessible in the US. For the OP if he's out of the country - should probably look at Capit (italy), KLS (germany) and CHR(USA) if he can get them.

RSR racer

@ Anthem:

W/O taking hot pit temps, how many laps at NJMP would you say does it typically take to get up to proper temps in the TMP classes? Assuming stock tires (pirelli's in this case on the 1199)

What is meant by cold tearing?

Copiya

Thanks for all your input! I would certainly agree with Anthem's comments as to wether the are needed.

In my case, I do track days in fast/intermediate but am starting to get frustrated with warming up the OEM tires with warm up laps as It takes me a while to become confident that my tires at at optimal temps and really start hammering them and at such time I will be lucky to get 3 race pace laps in before our session is over, then it's another hour in the pit garages waiting for our next session.

If warmers allow me to go hard from the start on OEM tires then I can see the benefit in that for myself.

Going back to my OP I was curious as to which ones might work best on the panigale with OEM tires given its 200 profile and distance/gap between the tire hugger etc... Capit warmers are set at a single temp (hot) however the CHR ones have a middle setting and lower setting, would a slightly cooler temp than the capits be better for the OEM tires?

anthem

Are you serious or trying to stick more irons into the fire ? If I remember correctly, you seem to be on team "cheerleader" ? :-)

Ok, if you are serious - Depends on outside air temps to a certain extent. If it's sunny out, it won't take long as the track temp could easily be +20 over air temp. Also depends on what you are talking about as "proper temp". Your "proper temp" is different than mine, or Joe Blows, or Valentino Rossi's. For white/yellow group speeds - 'proper temp' (their riding temp) might only be around 120-140 degrees. For more advanced riders - those tire temps will go up to 160, 180, 200. Tire temp also depends upon tire pressure you're running (not a direct association, but the lower the pressure, the higher the max temperature). For OEM Pirelli SuperCorsa SP tires, i believe the recommended tire pressure to run cold is 29/27 or somewhere around there. If you're running the SC tires, it might be another pound lower.

The OEM SP tires get up to temp faster than race slicks or the SC compound tires. The SC tires get up to speed pretty quickly as it is, but their range of operation is /supposedly/ not as wide as the SP's, though my experience with them seems to be fairly wide ranging (though may not range as far when its cold).

Cold tearing is when tires are colder than they /should/ be based on how you're riding. It can handle at quite a range of temperature - as its not necessarily how 'cold' the temp is vs how hot the tire should be based on how you're riding. So you can cold tear a tire at 150 degrees, or you can cold tear tires at 100 - depends on rider and how you're riding. Again related to tire pressure and suspension as well. Too high a tire pressure doesn't allow tires to come up to temp as easily (and possibly not as high). So you don't want to run normal street pressure (40psi) on track. But MotoGP guys can cold tear a tire at 150, while I couldn't no matter how hard I try.

In a more simplistic answer to your question - 2 laps will generally easily get you up to your riding temp around NJMP. Ride the first lap at 60% and the second at 75% and you should be fine for any temperature north of 60-70. If its cold out (like 50 degrees), then definitely get your tires warmed up before hammering them.

I see you're going out to NJMP. Is this your first time out on track or out on NJMP ? If so, if you're following TPM out on novice, they'll take you out in groups following instructors. You won't have to worry about getting tires up to temp because you won't be going fast enough for that to be a consideration. Let me put it this way - if you're running north of say 2:00 per lap, track/tire temp won't be an issue (unless its really really cold). You won't be near the limits of traction at that pace. Also, NJMP starts you out at T3. So T3a/3b/3c (chicane) and the next couple turns aren't really going to be taxing traction until T5 and will be warming your tires.

For me personally, I usually ride 75% on first lap if the day is kind of warm. If its kind of cold, two laps. I only use tire warmers when its really really cold out (40-50 out) and then only to around 150. I'm not racing that I would need it at 180. You can probably get Brett to chime in here as he rides there alot - though again, it depends on what/who/how you are riding.

RSR racer

No "irons in the fire"....legit questions to someone with more experience than I.

Yes, first time with TMP, so I will be taking the route prescribed by them. I can always use more classroom time to sharpen mental concepts and I'm a good student ( I am also a PCA HPDE instructor, so I've been on both sides of the learning/teaching coin)

Looking forward to learning more about my bike and my abilities and towards learning from all of the instructors down there. (I'm a friggin' sponge and ask way too may questions!).

Brett said he'll take a moment when he can to observe and intruct if he can.

Thanks for clarifying the tire temp issues.

anthem

copiya - if you're looking at capit, I believe capit does have a digital tire warmer system. Though I do not remember if its adjustable or just a meter. Unfortunately all the variable temp ones are usually the most expensive option of all the units in the line. So, the less skilled and the less you need at max 180 - the more expensive the unit so you can vary the temperature, right ? Because if you're expert, you can just keep it at 180, but if you're just fast/intermediate you only need/want 150, right ??

But I know KLS also has variable temp in their digital gauge line.

My two tips for tire warmers on the Duc - Be careful with the speed sensor that is located underneath the fender. Easy to get caught and will be a bad day if you pull it out and break it. Some people keep it in there but be careful, others relocate it above the fender. Also, consider the nomex versions - the exhaust is hot and in close proximity to the tire.

Copiya

You are a legend Anthem, thanks for your input, it is greatly appreciated.
Now to go shopping...

Trauma

I like yellow ones

Attached Images

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Phil

race tires - warmers. (helps tire life)

street tires - no warmers. (or if you like the show)