Advice on weight distribution

Gulf Coast · October 26th, 2012, 05:27 PM

This is/has been a much talked about topic but I obviously fell asleep in class when it was being discussed!! If you take these photos - turn 2 at Infineon - can you tell me how much of my weight, on a percentage basis, should be on the inside (right hand) peg vs how much should be in my left leg locked into the bike if that makes sense? I seem to go between locking my outside leg tight on the bike in some turns and pushing hard down on the inside peg in others? I'd like to get some consistency but not exactly sure which way is right?? Txs very much.......
PS - no this isn't a Ducati it's my GSXR before anyone asks!!

Gulf Coast · October 26th, 2012, 05:29 PM

....and now the photos!!

TransNone13 · October 26th, 2012, 05:32 PM

Looks good, but you're doing what I'm trying to stop doing. You're crossed up. Good lower body position, but your upper body isn't over or low enough. Head should be looking through where a mirror would be, over your inside hand. A good gauge is outside elbow on gas cap.

Insofar as weighting the pegs, that depends on your preference and skill level. I would say weight your outside peg and leverage your knee against the tank and bring the bike in. You weight the inside if you want to back the bike in.

Good example:

George Villar · October 26th, 2012, 05:44 PM

If you want a qualified answer (no offense to anyone here) go to Keith Code's free forum and post in the Cornering Section and let the guru answer you.

Motorcycle Riding School - California Superbike School

TransNone13 · October 26th, 2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Villar

If you want a qualified answer

lol

sifubs · October 26th, 2012, 05:51 PM

Until you get to attend superbike school they have a forum in which this topic is covered in depth with feedback from many instructors.

Http:\\forums.superbikeschool.com

George Villar · October 26th, 2012, 06:12 PM

I meant no offense to any gentlemen in the room…..

TransNone13 · October 26th, 2012, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Villar

I meant no offense to any gentlemen in the room…..

Yeah, just feel like an asshole.

zvez · October 27th, 2012, 01:07 AM

I'd done a couple track days in past years. This year, I did Code's Superbike two day camp.

I learned more in those two days (that applies to both street riding and track) then all the years I've been riding. The good thing about code school is they give you the tools to build on. They've been doing it for 30 years. I'm gong to do the camp again next year, money well spent. As a rule of thumb, at Code's they want you to use the mirror as your position of where to place your head to give you a basic starting point. ie your head should be over the place the mirror glass would be on your bike on the inside of the turn.

THey didn't emphasize (at least and the level 1 and level 2 I took) weighting of the pegs so much as positioning and proper throttle control to keep the proper front back weight bias while leaned over.

The other huge thing I learned that a lot of track day riders don't do. is just how agressive you snap the bike over entering a turn, it's not a slow smooth progression but a very fast push on the bar the drop the bike in, instantly.

HESSIAN · October 27th, 2012, 09:51 AM

This is what I would suggest...
One should never be sitting on the seat of the bike. Your backside should be making just the slightest contact with the seat. And there are few places on the track where your bottom is static in the center of the seat, so minimize body position changes and stay on one side of the bike if a series of turns in the same direction are coming up.
Legs should be bent and "sprung" at the ready, almost like a boxer. Therefore, the majority of your weight will be carried on the footpegs, with the amount of left - right weight distribution dependent on the direction of the turn (obviously inside peg gets more weight) and depth of the lean. Your outside mid-thigh should make contact with the fuel tank's outside surface so as to generate additional inward lean force.
In doing so, the majority of your body weight should be directed through the foot pegs and tank sides. If you're doing this right, dont be surprised if you're buying a new pair of riding boots every other season because of the holes under the ball of your foot.
As for the post regarding bar and control input, there should be very little body weight put into the bar ends so as to not disturb the front suspension. You should be able to maintain torso position after lifting both hands away from the bars. Then when approaching track turns, the majority of bar and controller input (ie. hard break, counter steer) should occur when the bike is closest to upright. Then as the bike achieves greater lean angle, the amount of input (trail breaking, light hands on the bars) should gradually diminish until the apex. Then the process is reversed from apex to exit, with gradually more input (ie. increasing acceleration to get the bike upright) until the turn is completed.
And as for head position, there isn't really one fixed position to place your head (ie. Fork tube, mirror), as it's position should change as you transition through the turn.

BowHunter · October 28th, 2012, 01:32 PM

Weight should be carried mainly on the outher peg in turns - I found this the best solution for me.

George Villar · October 28th, 2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HESSIAN

This is what I would suggest...
One should never be sitting on the seat of the bike. Your backside should be making just the slightest contact with the seat. And there are few places on the track where your bottom is static in the center of the seat, so minimize body position changes and stay on one side of the bike if a series of turns in the same direction are coming up.
Legs should be bent and "sprung" at the ready, almost like a boxer. Therefore, the majority of your weight will be carried on the footpegs, with the amount of left - right weight distribution dependent on the direction of the turn (obviously inside peg gets more weight) and depth of the lean. Your outside mid-thigh should make contact with the fuel tank's outside surface so as to generate additional inward lean force.
In doing so, the majority of your body weight should be directed through the foot pegs and tank sides. If you're doing this right, dont be surprised if you're buying a new pair of riding boots every other season because of the holes under the ball of your foot.
As for the post regarding bar and control input, there should be very little body weight put into the bar ends so as to not disturb the front suspension. You should be able to maintain torso position after lifting both hands away from the bars. Then when approaching track turns, the majority of bar and controller input (ie. hard break, counter steer) should occur when the bike is closest to upright. Then as the bike achieves greater lean angle, the amount of input (trail breaking, light hands on the bars) should gradually diminish until the apex. Then the process is reversed from apex to exit, with gradually more input (ie. increasing acceleration to get the bike upright) until the turn is completed.
And as for head position, there isn't really one fixed position to place your head (ie. Fork tube, mirror), as it's position should change as you transition through the turn.

Clueless….

HESSIAN · October 28th, 2012, 05:53 PM

Curious choice of a word from one who claims no offense.

George Villar · October 28th, 2012, 06:29 PM

I changed my mind after I read your post!

HESSIAN · October 28th, 2012, 06:47 PM

My only intention was to try to pass on some things I thought I've learned. I'm far from having all the answers.
If that's you in your avitar pic, then you've obviously put time into this art as I'm trying to do as well.

George Villar · October 29th, 2012, 01:11 AM

That is me in my avatar, also look at my photo album. I learned from Keith Code, Motorcycle Riding School - California Superbike School. It's the best money I've ever spent on myself. After you read his books, watch the videos, take Level 1-4 and learn why "advice" can be a bad thing- then you will see why I'm telling you this.

Ask to use the no BS bike (body steering), then see if your advice changes.

George Villar

HESSIAN · October 29th, 2012, 05:58 AM

What I can appreciate is there are many good teachers that one may learn from. Otherwise, the conversation quickly turns into "my Kung Fu is better then yours," and that's not going to help anyone.
Keith Code has experience and many great observations to help others improve their skills, including 3 of the 5 champions I am still learning from.
Although I'm interested to hear more about it, I am not familiar with the no body steer method. What confuses me is why former Code student champions, and now teachers themselves, have chosen not to teach this no body stearing method that you speak of at any of the schools that I've attended. In any case, I'm happy for the advice they have shared with me.
I look forward to learning from you too, next time we're both at NJMP.

superfly999 · October 29th, 2012, 06:40 AM

If no body steering is the answer then why hang off the bike at all...just coutersteer right? weighting the footpeg is the only way to hang off...where else can you put your mass?

George Villar · October 29th, 2012, 06:54 AM

I am not qualified to teach, the no BS bike shows that weight on pegs are not steering inputs. The Twist 2 book is really well written and will refresh your Code Levels. I'm always at NJMP, see you there.

George Villar · October 29th, 2012, 06:57 AM

Check out this video on YouTube:

No BS bike - YouTube

Sent from my iPhone

October 26th, 2012, 05:27 PM	#1
Gulf Coast Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: East Bay Area, San Fran Posts: 271 Thanks: 3	Advice on weight distribution This is/has been a much talked about topic but I obviously fell asleep in class when it was being discussed!! If you take these photos - turn 2 at Infineon - can you tell me how much of my weight, on a percentage basis, should be on the inside (right hand) peg vs how much should be in my left leg locked into the bike if that makes sense? I seem to go between locking my outside leg tight on the bike in some turns and pushing hard down on the inside peg in others? I'd like to get some consistency but not exactly sure which way is right?? Txs very much....... PS - no this isn't a Ducati it's my GSXR before anyone asks!!

October 26th, 2012, 05:32 PM	#3
TransNone13 Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: Someville, Somestate Posts: 2,182 Thanks: 149	Looks good, but you're doing what I'm trying to stop doing. You're crossed up. Good lower body position, but your upper body isn't over or low enough. Head should be looking through where a mirror would be, over your inside hand. A good gauge is outside elbow on gas cap. Insofar as weighting the pegs, that depends on your preference and skill level. I would say weight your outside peg and leverage your knee against the tank and bring the bike in. You weight the inside if you want to back the bike in. Good example: Last edited by TransNone13; October 26th, 2012 at 05:37 PM.

October 27th, 2012, 09:51 AM	#10
HESSIAN Member Joined: Sep 2012 From: USA Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 I Ride: Street '12 1199S/ABS. Track '12 1199S/ABS.	This is what I would suggest... One should never be sitting on the seat of the bike. Your backside should be making just the slightest contact with the seat. And there are few places on the track where your bottom is static in the center of the seat, so minimize body position changes and stay on one side of the bike if a series of turns in the same direction are coming up. Legs should be bent and "sprung" at the ready, almost like a boxer. Therefore, the majority of your weight will be carried on the footpegs, with the amount of left - right weight distribution dependent on the direction of the turn (obviously inside peg gets more weight) and depth of the lean. Your outside mid-thigh should make contact with the fuel tank's outside surface so as to generate additional inward lean force. In doing so, the majority of your body weight should be directed through the foot pegs and tank sides. If you're doing this right, dont be surprised if you're buying a new pair of riding boots every other season because of the holes under the ball of your foot. As for the post regarding bar and control input, there should be very little body weight put into the bar ends so as to not disturb the front suspension. You should be able to maintain torso position after lifting both hands away from the bars. Then when approaching track turns, the majority of bar and controller input (ie. hard break, counter steer) should occur when the bike is closest to upright. Then as the bike achieves greater lean angle, the amount of input (trail breaking, light hands on the bars) should gradually diminish until the apex. Then the process is reversed from apex to exit, with gradually more input (ie. increasing acceleration to get the bike upright) until the turn is completed. And as for head position, there isn't really one fixed position to place your head (ie. Fork tube, mirror), as it's position should change as you transition through the turn. Last edited by HESSIAN; October 27th, 2012 at 05:00 PM.

October 28th, 2012, 05:53 PM	#13
HESSIAN Member Joined: Sep 2012 From: USA Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 I Ride: Street '12 1199S/ABS. Track '12 1199S/ABS.	Curious choice of a word from one who claims no offense. Last edited by HESSIAN; October 28th, 2012 at 06:00 PM.

October 28th, 2012, 06:47 PM	#15
HESSIAN Member Joined: Sep 2012 From: USA Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 I Ride: Street '12 1199S/ABS. Track '12 1199S/ABS.	My only intention was to try to pass on some things I thought I've learned. I'm far from having all the answers. If that's you in your avitar pic, then you've obviously put time into this art as I'm trying to do as well. Last edited by HESSIAN; October 28th, 2012 at 08:08 PM.

October 26th, 2012, 05:44 PM	#4
George Villar Senior Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: New York City Posts: 427 Thanks: 68 I Ride: Ducati 1199 Tricolore S, 1199 Panigale ABS, Bimota Tesi2D,DB-7,DB1,etc. BMW alpha Racing s1000rr	If you want a qualified answer (no offense to anyone here) go to Keith Code's free forum and post in the Cornering Section and let the guru answer you. Motorcycle Riding School - California Superbike School

October 26th, 2012, 05:51 PM	#6
sifubs Member Joined: Dec 2011 From: New Jersey Posts: 87 Thanks: 17	Until you get to attend superbike school they have a forum in which this topic is covered in depth with feedback from many instructors. Http:\\forums.superbikeschool.com

October 26th, 2012, 06:12 PM	#7
George Villar Senior Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: New York City Posts: 427 Thanks: 68 I Ride: Ducati 1199 Tricolore S, 1199 Panigale ABS, Bimota Tesi2D,DB-7,DB1,etc. BMW alpha Racing s1000rr	I meant no offense to any gentlemen in the room…..

October 27th, 2012, 01:07 AM	#9
zvez Senior Member Joined: May 2012 From: ga Posts: 1,701 Thanks: 145	I'd done a couple track days in past years. This year, I did Code's Superbike two day camp. I learned more in those two days (that applies to both street riding and track) then all the years I've been riding. The good thing about code school is they give you the tools to build on. They've been doing it for 30 years. I'm gong to do the camp again next year, money well spent. As a rule of thumb, at Code's they want you to use the mirror as your position of where to place your head to give you a basic starting point. ie your head should be over the place the mirror glass would be on your bike on the inside of the turn. THey didn't emphasize (at least and the level 1 and level 2 I took) weighting of the pegs so much as positioning and proper throttle control to keep the proper front back weight bias while leaned over. The other huge thing I learned that a lot of track day riders don't do. is just how agressive you snap the bike over entering a turn, it's not a slow smooth progression but a very fast push on the bar the drop the bike in, instantly.

October 28th, 2012, 01:32 PM	#11
BowHunter Member Joined: Sep 2012 From: Denmark Posts: 64 Thanks: 9	Weight should be carried mainly on the outher peg in turns - I found this the best solution for me.

October 28th, 2012, 06:29 PM	#14
George Villar Senior Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: New York City Posts: 427 Thanks: 68 I Ride: Ducati 1199 Tricolore S, 1199 Panigale ABS, Bimota Tesi2D,DB-7,DB1,etc. BMW alpha Racing s1000rr	I changed my mind after I read your post!

October 29th, 2012, 01:11 AM	#16
George Villar Senior Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: New York City Posts: 427 Thanks: 68 I Ride: Ducati 1199 Tricolore S, 1199 Panigale ABS, Bimota Tesi2D,DB-7,DB1,etc. BMW alpha Racing s1000rr	That is me in my avatar, also look at my photo album. I learned from Keith Code, Motorcycle Riding School - California Superbike School. It's the best money I've ever spent on myself. After you read his books, watch the videos, take Level 1-4 and learn why "advice" can be a bad thing- then you will see why I'm telling you this. Ask to use the no BS bike (body steering), then see if your advice changes. George Villar

October 29th, 2012, 05:58 AM	#17
HESSIAN Member Joined: Sep 2012 From: USA Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 I Ride: Street '12 1199S/ABS. Track '12 1199S/ABS.	What I can appreciate is there are many good teachers that one may learn from. Otherwise, the conversation quickly turns into "my Kung Fu is better then yours," and that's not going to help anyone. Keith Code has experience and many great observations to help others improve their skills, including 3 of the 5 champions I am still learning from. Although I'm interested to hear more about it, I am not familiar with the no body steer method. What confuses me is why former Code student champions, and now teachers themselves, have chosen not to teach this no body stearing method that you speak of at any of the schools that I've attended. In any case, I'm happy for the advice they have shared with me. I look forward to learning from you too, next time we're both at NJMP.

October 29th, 2012, 06:40 AM	#18
superfly999 Member Joined: Mar 2012 From: Toronto Canada Posts: 50 Thanks: 0	If no body steering is the answer then why hang off the bike at all...just coutersteer right? weighting the footpeg is the only way to hang off...where else can you put your mass?

October 29th, 2012, 06:54 AM	#19
George Villar Senior Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: New York City Posts: 427 Thanks: 68 I Ride: Ducati 1199 Tricolore S, 1199 Panigale ABS, Bimota Tesi2D,DB-7,DB1,etc. BMW alpha Racing s1000rr	I am not qualified to teach, the no BS bike shows that weight on pegs are not steering inputs. The Twist 2 book is really well written and will refresh your Code Levels. I'm always at NJMP, see you there.

October 29th, 2012, 06:57 AM	#20
George Villar Senior Member Joined: Jul 2012 From: New York City Posts: 427 Thanks: 68 I Ride: Ducati 1199 Tricolore S, 1199 Panigale ABS, Bimota Tesi2D,DB-7,DB1,etc. BMW alpha Racing s1000rr	Check out this video on YouTube: No BS bike - YouTube Sent from my iPhone

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