Ducati 1199 Motorcycle Forum Ducati 1199 Panigale Forum

Go Back   Ducati 1199 Forum > Ducati 1199 Forum > Racing

Racing Racing Forum - For racing and track day topics and discussions


Thanks Tree30Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 5th, 2013, 11:52 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jan 2012
From: East TN

Posts: 529
Thanks: 150

Quote:
Originally Posted by gman74 View Post
Thanks for the write up Bowdy. So I guess for all those switching to the 190 Pilots or the Q2s will be looking to move their DTC up from 1-2 to maybe 3-4 depending on their riding preferences/experiences. I only mention this because it seems to be the most common tire size change within this forum. Bottom line is to test the bike out, after all there are 8 levels of DTC.
Actually you'll need to go the other way with the TC if you move to a 190/55 rear. The smaller diameter rear will be rotating at a higher RPM relative to the front (more pulses from the rear sensor ring at a given ground speed). I have Bridgestone S20's on mine presently (for road use), and found that even though the brand-new rear Bridgestone 190/55 was 5mm larger in center diameter than the worn stock Pirelli 200/55, the TC was noticeably more active accelerating off corners at the same setting. That was likely due to the ratio of rear-to-front edge diameter being smaller than the stock tires. Didn't measure the edges new, but should have; we're not really worried about TC when the bike's stood up, after all. Depends on the actual tire dimensions of the brand you choose, but I'd say going one setting lower (2 vs 3 for instance) gives fairly comparable TC intervention when going to a 190/55 vs the std 200/55.

Heck; you can calibrate cheap push-bike computers by inputting actual tire dimensions into them, so hopefully someone will figure out how to hack that function into the DTC via dash settings one of these days without having to resort to high-cost aftermarket systems like Nemesis. Seems a shame to chuck working TC just because it has one set of tire dimensions hard-coded into it. And about 4-5 levels that are too intrusive to be of use...

Last edited by Steve B; January 5th, 2013 at 12:06 PM.
Steve B is offline  
Remove Ads
Old January 5th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Bowdy69's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Brisbane Australia

Posts: 206
Thanks: 83

I Ride: R1, 675R, 1199s, 1199, TL1000R
Yep that's what I meant when I said less is more, I'm on to it, and ur correct about smaller and more... Changed the front this morning, holly crap... Running a different front really screws with it...

I am going to see if I can hack the system, keep u all posted...
Bowdy69 is offline  
Old January 5th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2012
From: georgia

Posts: 204
Thanks: 75

I Ride: 1199S, F1098, R6, R1
I've got to believe Ducati has got some way of altering it for racers that run in spec tire series. Have you tried contacting Ducati racing support ? racing.support@ducati.com
veck is offline  
Old January 5th, 2013, 06:20 PM   #14
Member
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: Seattle, WA

Posts: 38
Thanks: 0

My understanding may be wrong, but I thouht that the brief roll before the DTC light goes out was the bike calibrating the front and rear tire diameters, part of the boot-up sequence.
Bronston is offline  
Old January 5th, 2013, 06:23 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2012
From: georgia

Posts: 204
Thanks: 75

I Ride: 1199S, F1098, R6, R1
I think thats the ABS sensor calibration sequence you are talking about.
veck is offline  
Old January 5th, 2013, 06:55 PM   #16
Member
 
TOPDUC's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Gloucester, VA

Posts: 48
Thanks: 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronston View Post
My understanding may be wrong, but I thouht that the brief roll before the DTC light goes out was the bike calibrating the front and rear tire diameters, part of the boot-up sequence.
Nah, thats just the DTC waiting for an input from each wheel sensor to validate that the sensors are working. My Aprilia does the same thing at startup. The Aprilia however, does include a calibration function to account for different tire diameters AND gearing changes. I'm at a loss why Ducati doesn't include the calibration feature.
TOPDUC is offline  
Old January 5th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Bowdy69's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Brisbane Australia

Posts: 206
Thanks: 83

I Ride: R1, 675R, 1199s, 1199, TL1000R
Ok, first of all I'd like to say thanks to Gman for imitating the question and to those of you who have added valuable input to the thread.

First some background, for the first 8 years as a professional engineer I worked as a systems and interface engineer on CNC and robotic equipment in automotive.

Robotic equipment uses an impulse encoder to send a measured input to the CPU to translate mechanical movement in to digital input. This is then translated in to measured movement from a set point to points of reference in the programming.

The subject we are all trying to solve has finally shaken off the dust from the old grey matter and through out the day I've measured tyres and tried a number of configurations...

Some machine shops will make the same component in different sizes, the easiest way to do this is called parametric programming. Instead of writing a separate program they tell the encoder to count the pulses in different ways, I.E a measurement of 1mm might be 2 pulses for a large part and 8 pulses for the same shape but smaller.

(Sorry if I'm going on)

However old machines did not have the programming or capability to construct the algorithms in the memory. Wen this was the case the simple solution was to change the encoder so the count was different.

We in effect are doing the same when we change the size of a tyre. This was my light bulb moment today... If we are changing the mechanical count by reducing the tyre size then the obvious and simple solution will be to calculate the change in pulse rate between a 200 section tyre and a 190 section tyre and manufacture a new disk that brings the pulse rate back in to line with the programming.

A very simple solution that is easy to manufacture and fit... This gents will be my next step. It will not effect the abs because the abs works on the principle that when it stops seeing a pulse it activates.

I am truly grateful for all input over the last day or so, this solution if effective will be great for those who race and use different sizes depending on rain, slick or make of tyre..

Your thoughts gents
Bowdy69 is offline  
Old January 6th, 2013, 02:35 AM   #18
Member
 
99DUC's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
From: Melbourne, Australia

Posts: 69
Thanks: 4

I Ride: Panigale ABS
Clever thinking and a viable solution, but not sure you will get the fine granularity needed. Adding one or two pulses may not correlate to what you need. If I get a chance tomorrow (back at work) I will throw some number at a spreadsheet!
99DUC is offline  
Old January 6th, 2013, 02:52 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Bowdy69's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Brisbane Australia

Posts: 206
Thanks: 83

I Ride: R1, 675R, 1199s, 1199, TL1000R
Thanks Pete, the interesting thing with this will be getting that balance, let me know if its worth exchanging email addresses re this subject.

Still haven't measured the 190, will do this tomorrow and give u the difference between the 200 section and 190 section and post the numbers, the 195 Dunlop is approximately 24 mm less in circumference. It's taxing the ol noggin...

Chasing info on how to access the DCT

Back to work eh.... Bummer
Bowdy69 is offline  
Old January 6th, 2013, 05:54 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
gilesr6's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: Reading

Posts: 160
Thanks: 9

I Ride: 12' Base ABS, 12 MTS PP, 05 Big Dog Bulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowdy69 View Post
Thanks Pete, the interesting thing with this will be getting that balance, let me know if its worth exchanging email addresses re this subject.

Still haven't measured the 190, will do this tomorrow and give u the difference between the 200 section and 190 section and post the numbers, the 195 Dunlop is approximately 24 mm less in circumference. It's taxing the ol noggin...

Chasing info on how to access the DCT

Back to work eh.... Bummer
How much did it affect the gearing with a 24mm circumference difference? Where did you get the Penske? They just released the 1199 spec recently?
gilesr6 is offline  
Reply

  Ducati 1199 Forum > Ducati 1199 Forum > Racing

Tags
control, traction, truth, tyres


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Ducati 1199 Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
new tyres cheeseyduc Ducati 1199 50 April 16th, 2013 02:44 PM
What's more important, traction control or ABS? Denver Rick Motorcycle Talk 31 November 9th, 2012 01:00 PM
traction control and lean angle kaido Ducati 1199 7 October 23rd, 2012 11:46 AM
Does Traction Control feel like slipping clutch? SteveNunez Ducati 1199 7 July 6th, 2012 04:40 AM
Replacement Tyres SPJ Mechanical and Technical 12 June 18th, 2012 05:55 AM

Google+
Facebook Twitter RSS Feed


Ducati 1199 and Ducati 899 Panigale Motorcycle Forum
Copyright © 2011-2014 DUCATI1199.COM • All rights reserved.